New boat search beginning (with quesion at end)...

Hi Folks,
Have been thinking about a new boat for some time now (especially after
fishing out of Brad Coovert's new Triton last year), so I went to the boat
show in Indianapolis and strolled around all the major brands today.
Interesting trip... Found several have the major features I like, some have
the major features as options, some don't offer the features, etc.
As a current and relatively happy Nitro owner, I was most surprised by
the boats they are currently offering, and the progress they have made with
their boats. They have the recessed trolling motor control I am definitely
going to have, and the swing away tongue I need. Was a little disturbed
that they didn't have non-skid rubber near the back corners of the boat
anymore. That's a lot of space between my son and his baits hung in trees
without something to stand on.
Triton's are still totally cool. They are probably still my leading
contender at this time. I was probably surprised most by the cost. Without
trying to haggle at all, and staying in the 18' / 150hp carb outboard, the
prices quoted were similar, with two exceptions. Nitro was low, at 19,900.
Skeeter, Stratos and Triton were at about 21,800 - 21,900 and the Ranger was
24,500. I wasn't surprised the Nitro was least, or the Ranger was most
expensive, just surprised the Ranger didn't have the recessed trolling motor
foot control and the front butt seat standard. In fact, I didn't see the
recessed trolling motor at all on the Ranger, as well as the Stratos and the
Skeeter. I hate to throw so much importance in such a little thing, but I
definitely want that feature.
A few of the main features I noticed varied from boat to boat are the
dual charger for batteries, the butt seat, the spare tire and the amount of
space between the rear edge of the boat and the end of the carpet as well as
the ability to remove the middle bench seat (for walking through to the rear
of the boat).
I have the wife convinced this is a good thing; so I think she's
onboard. Just need to get her to the dealers with me & see if I can't get a
deal.

Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or any help in
how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?
--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

Andrew, some thoughts came to me as I was reading your post. Look for the
*** for my remarks.

"Andrew Kidd" wrote in message
news:fBVZb.98042$uV3.570232@attbi_s51...
Hi Folks,
Have been thinking about a new boat for some time now (especially
after
fishing out of Brad Coovert's new Triton last year), so I went to the boat
show in Indianapolis and strolled around all the major brands today.
Interesting trip... Found several have the major features I like, some
have
the major features as options, some don't offer the features, etc.

***This is a very good way to shop for a boat, as you get to see many
different models under one roof, comparing features, benefits, etc. But,
unless you have experience with a particular boat, don't sign a contract
until you've test driven it.

As a current and relatively happy Nitro owner, I was most surprised by
the boats they are currently offering, and the progress they have made
with
their boats. They have the recessed trolling motor control I am
definitely
going to have, and the swing away tongue I need. Was a little disturbed
that they didn't have non-skid rubber near the back corners of the boat
anymore. That's a lot of space between my son and his baits hung in trees
without something to stand on.

***I wouldn't get too hung up on that. You can buy non-skid adhesive rubber
and cut it/install it to your satisfaction.

Triton's are still totally cool. They are probably still my leading
contender at this time. I was probably surprised most by the cost.
Without
trying to haggle at all, and staying in the 18' / 150hp carb outboard, the
prices quoted were similar, with two exceptions. Nitro was low, at 19,900.
Skeeter, Stratos and Triton were at about 21,800 - 21,900 and the Ranger
was
24,500. I wasn't surprised the Nitro was least, or the Ranger was most
expensive,

***Triton is a very good boat. It doesn't surprise me that the pricing was
such as it is. BUT, here's something to consider. Do you really want a
carburated motor? I wouldn't. EFI or the direct injection systems are sooo
much better. Better fuel economy, better performance, lower emissions,
quicker starts (usually), less smoking, less hassles, make the carburated
motor's economy questionable. Do you really want to put 25 year old
technology on a new boat? Find the boat that you like and see if the dealer
either has, or can get a previous year's holdover motor, still in the crate.
That way, you still get the new technology outboard, with a full warranty,
but at a reduced price.

just surprised the Ranger didn't have the recessed trolling motor
foot control and the front butt seat standard. In fact, I didn't see the
recessed trolling motor at all on the Ranger, as well as the Stratos and
the
Skeeter. I hate to throw so much importance in such a little thing, but I
definitely want that feature.

***Some people like that, some don't. For me, it wouldn't work well enough
to make a difference to me. Because I guide, I end up running the boat
sometimes from the front, sometimes from the middle, sometimes sitting down
in the seats. The front butt seat not standard is kind of surprising. Most
boats come standard with one seat of each kind, standup and sit down. Quite
often, you can make a deal with the dealer, and trade the sit down for a
butt seat.

A few of the main features I noticed varied from boat to boat are the
dual charger for batteries, the butt seat, the spare tire and the amount
of
space between the rear edge of the boat and the end of the carpet as well
as
the ability to remove the middle bench seat (for walking through to the
rear
of the boat).

***You're going to have to decide if these features are important enough to
tip you one way or the other.

I have the wife convinced this is a good thing; so I think she's
onboard. Just need to get her to the dealers with me & see if I can't get
a
deal.

Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or any help in
how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?

***Some times you'll have a hard time getting the price down. Margins
aren't what they used to be on boats and motors. By agreeing to take last
year's holdovers, you can really get a good deal. Often, if you're having a
hard time reducing the price, you can get them to throw things in. When I
bought my ProCraft, the price was already in line and they wouldn't budge on
the price. But, I did get them to upgrade the trolling motor, got a free
spare tire/hanger and they installed a KeelGuard. Plus, the boat came with
a manual jackplate, I had them install a hydraulic plate and traded the
manual one for a spare stainless prop. It was used but in good shape.
Those deals saved me a fair hunk of change.

Good luck and when you get your new baby, don't forget to post a picture of
it on OutdoorFrontiers.com
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers
http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com
G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods
http://www.herefishyfishy.com

I saved $6,000.00 when I bought mine by finding a guy on the internet
that won a boat in a tournament ( a certificate actually ) and wanted to
sell it. There was a few I found this way & kind of had my choice .

wrote in message
...
I saved $6,000.00 when I bought mine by finding a guy on the internet
that won a boat in a tournament ( a certificate actually ) and wanted to
sell it. There was a few I found this way & kind of had my choice .


How'd you go about finding these guys? I'm actually waiting to win the
Ranger I bought chances on... :-)

--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

"Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers" wrote in
message ...
Andrew, some thoughts came to me as I was reading your post. Look for the
*** for my remarks.

"Andrew Kidd" wrote in message
news:fBVZb.98042$uV3.570232@attbi_s51...
Hi Folks,
Have been thinking about a new boat for some time now (especially
after
fishing out of Brad Coovert's new Triton last year), so I went to the
boat
show in Indianapolis and strolled around all the major brands today.
Interesting trip... Found several have the major features I like, some
have
the major features as options, some don't offer the features, etc.

***This is a very good way to shop for a boat, as you get to see many
different models under one roof, comparing features, benefits, etc. But,
unless you have experience with a particular boat, don't sign a contract
until you've test driven it.

As a current and relatively happy Nitro owner, I was most surprised
by
the boats they are currently offering, and the progress they have made
with
their boats. They have the recessed trolling motor control I am
definitely
going to have, and the swing away tongue I need. Was a little disturbed
that they didn't have non-skid rubber near the back corners of the boat
anymore. That's a lot of space between my son and his baits hung in
trees
without something to stand on.

***I wouldn't get too hung up on that. You can buy non-skid adhesive
rubber
and cut it/install it to your satisfaction.


Some other good stuff SNIPPED

Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or any help
in
how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?

***Some times you'll have a hard time getting the price down. Margins
aren't what they used to be on boats and motors. By agreeing to take last
year's holdovers, you can really get a good deal. Often, if you're having
a
hard time reducing the price, you can get them to throw things in. When I
bought my ProCraft, the price was already in line and they wouldn't budge
on
the price. But, I did get them to upgrade the trolling motor, got a free
spare tire/hanger and they installed a KeelGuard. Plus, the boat came
with
a manual jackplate, I had them install a hydraulic plate and traded the
manual one for a spare stainless prop. It was used but in good shape.
Those deals saved me a fair hunk of change.

Good luck and when you get your new baby, don't forget to post a picture
of
it on OutdoorFrontiers.com
--
Steve @ OutdoorFrontiers


Steve,
Thanks for the thoughts. I appreciate it. I'll have to give some
serious thought on the EFI situation. Hard to justify the extra $3400
they're trying to tack on for that. I have a carb in my 115hp right now,
and have only had mild problems with it, mostly with a couple parts cracking
in the carb casing. Not too much to fix, but starting has never really been
much of a problem. Can't speak to economy of gas mileage, since i have no
real way to check that out. Definitely appreciate the thoughts on it though!
As for most of the other items, I have many fewer variables to work with
then you do, so it's pretty easy for me to pick out some of the more
important things for me. That recessed trolling motor looks great for less
hip/lower back stress. 8 hours of fishing can put a real hurt on the old
back! Anyone else have any experience with them?
--
Andrew Kidd
http://www.amiasoft.com/ - Software for the rest of us!
http://www.rofb.net/ - ROFB Newsgroup Home

I went on the bass fishing home page & clicked on boats for sale. There
were a bunch available, & I knew that I wanted a Champion right from the
start & I found one.

Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or any
help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now! There
are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local marina
carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.

Method two: Pure art of negotiation. Know the boat you want, and know its
competition (both the marina's and another boat brand). In negotiations, the
one who is asking the questions, is the one in control. Know pricing, going
interest rates, and terms. Know the boat's features so when the salesman
goes to demonstrate them, you rattle them off and explain the advantages and
disadvantages (to the boat you are look at and it competition). Keep that
salesman off balance, so that he or she is off their game. Be very direct
(matter of fact). Never let them see you smile, Never say you like a
feature or that it is important.

When you sit down, lean into them. They are trained to lean into you to
keep pressure on you and to stay in control. If you lean into them, you
will throw them off guard and they are likely to lean back in their chair or
away from you. If they do, you are in control. Begin to ask them for their
best price. They will tell you a price and wait for your objection.
Leaning into them even further, "John, you or your manager can do better
than that. I'm buying a boat TODAY, either from you or Marina X. You have
1 minute to convince me, and I don't want to hear about the features, or
your marina. I want to hear a price that going to make me stay here.
Because once I get up, I'm gone." If it was me, I would smile at you, and
say something like: "Ok, Mr. Kidd, what price would it take to make you stay
and buy that boat now, knowing I'm selling it for X?" My attempt to gain
control again, because if you give me a price, I'm going to write it down
with a statement like: "I will buy product X at X price today!" and then ask
you to sign it. Your price may not be what I want to hear, but it may be
better than the best price I or my GM could give you. Then I would ask you
to complete a credit application, and take whatever money I can get out of
you as your down payment. Then I would walk it into my GM to talk. The GM
may accept the offer or counter. But I have your money, your signature and
most people at that point believe they are committed. (You lose)

Instead, say: "John, I suggest you go sit with your manager and the two of
you come up with your best price. This will not be a back and forth
process. The two of you have one shot to convince me. I'm buying a boat
today, is it going to be with you or with Marina X?" If they even try to
say or do anything but head for their manager, get up and start walking for
the manager's desk. The salesman will go to their manager, and they will
shoot you a price. If it is acceptable, GREAT, if not, get up, shake their
hand and tell them: "Gentlemen, it was nice talking with you. But I have
to see a man at Marina X about buying a boat Today! You have my cell
number, if you have a better offer, you have 5 minutes. After that, I will
be too far away for me to turn around. Nice meeting you, Have a good day.",
then walk and drive away.

They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to be
less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher

Spring is a bad time of year to buy a boat.

Last day of month is a good day to buy a car and hopefully a boat. Your
salesmen might have to meet a monthly quota. In a large store with lots of
salesmen you may inadvertently pit the salesmen against each other.

If everything else fails, leave. Walking away is your most powerful tool.
Actually it's your only tool. Time is all you really have going for you. The
one thing a salesman truly cannot handle is the customer getting up and
leaving. You really have to be prepared to walk.

When you walk, mention that tomorrow is another day and maybe you'll "start
over", that way you don't shut the door behind you but you will intimidate
the salesman.

Hopefully you'll get a phone call later in the day or the next day. If so,
continue to negotiate, they won't call with their best deal, but they will
be close, very close.

Good luck, please post your experience. I think everyone would like to hear
what happens.


"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...
Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or
any
help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now!
There
are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local
marina
carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.

Method two: Pure art of negotiation. Know the boat you want, and know its
competition (both the marina's and another boat brand). In negotiations,
the
one who is asking the questions, is the one in control. Know pricing,
going
interest rates, and terms. Know the boat's features so when the salesman
goes to demonstrate them, you rattle them off and explain the advantages
and
disadvantages (to the boat you are look at and it competition). Keep that
salesman off balance, so that he or she is off their game. Be very direct
(matter of fact). Never let them see you smile, Never say you like a
feature or that it is important.

When you sit down, lean into them. They are trained to lean into you to
keep pressure on you and to stay in control. If you lean into them, you
will throw them off guard and they are likely to lean back in their chair
or
away from you. If they do, you are in control. Begin to ask them for
their
best price. They will tell you a price and wait for your objection.
Leaning into them even further, "John, you or your manager can do better
than that. I'm buying a boat TODAY, either from you or Marina X. You
have
1 minute to convince me, and I don't want to hear about the features, or
your marina. I want to hear a price that going to make me stay here.
Because once I get up, I'm gone." If it was me, I would smile at you, and
say something like: "Ok, Mr. Kidd, what price would it take to make you
stay
and buy that boat now, knowing I'm selling it for X?" My attempt to gain
control again, because if you give me a price, I'm going to write it down
with a statement like: "I will buy product X at X price today!" and then
ask
you to sign it. Your price may not be what I want to hear, but it may be
better than the best price I or my GM could give you. Then I would ask
you
to complete a credit application, and take whatever money I can get out
of
you as your down payment. Then I would walk it into my GM to talk. The
GM
may accept the offer or counter. But I have your money, your signature
and
most people at that point believe they are committed. (You lose)

Instead, say: "John, I suggest you go sit with your manager and the two of
you come up with your best price. This will not be a back and forth
process. The two of you have one shot to convince me. I'm buying a boat
today, is it going to be with you or with Marina X?" If they even try to
say or do anything but head for their manager, get up and start walking
for
the manager's desk. The salesman will go to their manager, and they will
shoot you a price. If it is acceptable, GREAT, if not, get up, shake
their
hand and tell them: "Gentlemen, it was nice talking with you. But I have
to see a man at Marina X about buying a boat Today! You have my cell
number, if you have a better offer, you have 5 minutes. After that, I
will
be too far away for me to turn around. Nice meeting you, Have a good
day.",
then walk and drive away.

They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to
be
less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher

No doubt those Triton's look and run like a Cheetah on the water.

But don't give up on the Nitro Yet. I bought my first one last year. 2003
17ft, fiberglass 700 DX with a 2004 Merc Opti 115 on the back.

The boat is a little rocket, and I usually run it at about 55miles/hour ( I
will bring it down to about 45mph to troll) :-). The top end on the boat is
about 62mph and with a stianles prop, I will probably get 65 or 67 out of
her.

The point is, unless you really want the big boat, and the big payment that
comes along with buying the 20 and 21 footers, stick with something more
reasonable. Whether its Triton, Nitro, Skeeter or any of the other brands,
the point is, they are all very nice, high performance bass boats. You will
do well by any one of them. For my money, you can't beat my set up.

Do yourself a favour though...get the Hotfoot Installed. Well worth it.


Cheers,

Matt







"Richard Liebert" wrote in message
...
Spring is a bad time of year to buy a boat.

Last day of month is a good day to buy a car and hopefully a boat. Your
salesmen might have to meet a monthly quota. In a large store with lots of
salesmen you may inadvertently pit the salesmen against each other.

If everything else fails, leave. Walking away is your most powerful tool.
Actually it's your only tool. Time is all you really have going for you.
The
one thing a salesman truly cannot handle is the customer getting up and
leaving. You really have to be prepared to walk.

When you walk, mention that tomorrow is another day and maybe you'll
"start
over", that way you don't shut the door behind you but you will intimidate
the salesman.

Hopefully you'll get a phone call later in the day or the next day. If so,
continue to negotiate, they won't call with their best deal, but they will
be close, very close.

Good luck, please post your experience. I think everyone would like to
hear
what happens.


"Craig Baugher" wrote in message
...
Kidd Wrote: "Any comments from anyone about the boats I've mentioned or
any
help in how far I might be able to haggle some of these prices down?"

Two ways to get that price down, but you need to be ready to buy now!
There
are BIG markup in boats and outboards. First is to go to your local
marina
carrying the boat you want. Look up their pro staff members and talk to
them about buying their boat. Usually you get a huge discount.

Method two: Pure art of negotiation. Know the boat you want, and know
its
competition (both the marina's and another boat brand). In negotiations,
the
one who is asking the questions, is the one in control. Know pricing,
going
interest rates, and terms. Know the boat's features so when the
salesman
goes to demonstrate them, you rattle them off and explain the advantages
and
disadvantages (to the boat you are look at and it competition). Keep
that
salesman off balance, so that he or she is off their game. Be very
direct
(matter of fact). Never let them see you smile, Never say you like a
feature or that it is important.

When you sit down, lean into them. They are trained to lean into you to
keep pressure on you and to stay in control. If you lean into them, you
will throw them off guard and they are likely to lean back in their
chair
or
away from you. If they do, you are in control. Begin to ask them for
their
best price. They will tell you a price and wait for your objection.
Leaning into them even further, "John, you or your manager can do better
than that. I'm buying a boat TODAY, either from you or Marina X. You
have
1 minute to convince me, and I don't want to hear about the features, or
your marina. I want to hear a price that going to make me stay here.
Because once I get up, I'm gone." If it was me, I would smile at you,
and
say something like: "Ok, Mr. Kidd, what price would it take to make you
stay
and buy that boat now, knowing I'm selling it for X?" My attempt to
gain
control again, because if you give me a price, I'm going to write it
down
with a statement like: "I will buy product X at X price today!" and then
ask
you to sign it. Your price may not be what I want to hear, but it may
be
better than the best price I or my GM could give you. Then I would ask
you
to complete a credit application, and take whatever money I can get out
of
you as your down payment. Then I would walk it into my GM to talk. The
GM
may accept the offer or counter. But I have your money, your signature
and
most people at that point believe they are committed. (You lose)

Instead, say: "John, I suggest you go sit with your manager and the two
of
you come up with your best price. This will not be a back and forth
process. The two of you have one shot to convince me. I'm buying a
boat
today, is it going to be with you or with Marina X?" If they even try
to
say or do anything but head for their manager, get up and start walking
for
the manager's desk. The salesman will go to their manager, and they
will
shoot you a price. If it is acceptable, GREAT, if not, get up, shake
their
hand and tell them: "Gentlemen, it was nice talking with you. But I
have
to see a man at Marina X about buying a boat Today! You have my cell
number, if you have a better offer, you have 5 minutes. After that, I
will
be too far away for me to turn around. Nice meeting you, Have a good
day.",
then walk and drive away.

They may shoot you another price, or give you a walking speech. "Love
to
have your business Mr. Kidd, if you change your mind or find Marina X to
be
less than you expected, I would love to earn your business." If they
give
you the speech, they may be at their best price, or you gave them a
strong
indication you prefer their product. I don't let somebody walk unless
one
of the above is true.

--
Craig Baugher

"Richard Liebert" wrote in message
...
Spring is a bad time of year to buy a boat.

Last day of month is a good day to buy a car and hopefully a boat. Your
salesmen might have to meet a monthly quota. In a large store with lots of
salesmen you may inadvertently pit the salesmen against each other.

If everything else fails, leave. Walking away is your most powerful tool.
Actually it's your only tool. Time is all you really have going for you.
The
one thing a salesman truly cannot handle is the customer getting up and
leaving. You really have to be prepared to walk.

No kidding. Salesman will get downright upset sometimes when you walk out.
Especially guys who work off a hard sell formula. But seriously. Having
bought boats, motorcycles, and trucks both new and used over the years I
have definitely learned that walking out is a valuable tool. One saleman
recently who was trying to sell me a motorcycle was screaming numbers at me
when I was headed out the door. If he hadn't been so unproffessional I
might have listened at that point. The numbers he was yelling at my back
were actually starting to get close to NADA price guide. To bad for him I
never buy from somebody I wouldn't feel comfortabel dealing with in the
future.

When you walk, mention that tomorrow is another day and maybe you'll
"start
over", that way you don't shut the door behind you but you will intimidate
the salesman.


I would not leave it that open. I would go for something a little stronger
like, "Is that really the best you can do?" pause for answer. "Thank you
for your time." Then if you are sitting down immediately stand out and
stick out your hand.

If you have to deal with a hard sell environment there are a couple tricks
to watch out for.

1. If you don't have the money I am sure we can work something out.
(means they are sidetracking you from the price)
2. Let me have your driver's license so I can do some preliminary
paperwork. (means they are going to hold your license hostage to keep you
from walking out. Call the police if they try.)
3. Lets go sit down. (Its a tactic to see how committed you are to the
purchase)

Absolutely do not say you plan to buy that boat with those feature until you
have a good price on the boat. Have some options open. Contact dealers all
over the country via interent. Most are afraid to give you a price, but
some will. Also, call all the dealers in your region on the phone. Never
make a deal over the phone.


Hopefully you'll get a phone call later in the day or the next day. If so,
continue to negotiate, they won't call with their best deal, but they will
be close, very close.


Maybe you will get a call. It will not necessarily be their best price, but
it should be better. You can still negotiate for options if it is a good
price with something like, "Thats an ok price, but there are some things I
need to put on right away and that price won't allow me to afford to do
that." Be very wary of this answer. At that point you will not be able to
budge them one penny on the price.


Good luck, please post your experience. I think everyone would like to
hear
what happens.


Boat dealers are salepeople. If you have ever negotaited a good deal on a
car or hada good or bad expereince with any kind of dealership reflect on
that and try to figure out what you could have done better.

I now have a guy at one of the local Chevy dealerships that has learned to
start at the bottom and figure out what I want. I already know what price I
will pay when I walk in his office so he doesn't waste either of our time.
I pay very close to GM employee discount price. I have purchased three
trucks at that dealership in the last 2 years for my business.

Good luck
--
Bob La Londe
www.YumaBassMan.com
All about fishing in Yuma, Arizona
Promote Your Fishing Website FOR FREE