::::::Upper Delaware River::::::|

Please read.

Two letters - one from Ron Urban, Chairman, NYS Council Trout Unlimited

The response letter from Craig Findley, President, Friends of the Upper
Delaware River
www.fudr.org
....................

TU LETTER-

May 3, 2004

Dear Council Member and Friends,

I understand that many chapters in the state have been asked to endorse a
new group known as Friends of the Upper Delaware River ("FUDR"). The issue
of flows on the Delaware River is one of statewide and regional concern.
National Trout Unlimited, the New York Council, and a number of New York
chapters have devoted a great deal of effort over the last several years to
working on this issue. You should be aware that we have serious reservations
about, and even objections to, several key portions of FUDR's platform. In
addition, FUDR has not cooperated with me in coordinating communications
with TU in New York. They run and mail their own agenda with no respect to
chain of command or respect to your leadership in council. It is imperative
that communication between the chapters and FUDR is funneled to the chapter
president or designated ranking official and that individual directors and
officers not respond to FUDR directly or speak on behalf of the chapter or
organization as a whole.

On this important issue, it is important that the New York Council and its
chapters coordinate our message and our activities on this issue. To that
end, TU's Catskills Coordinator, Rocci Aguirre, has been sending a variety
of updates on our work, and has scheduled a meeting on the issue for May 16
at the Catskills Flyfishing Center. If you are interested in participating
in our effort on Delaware flows, I urge you to attend that meeting. You can
contact Rocci at or (607)498-4671.

Also, it is critical to remember that the DRBC has now adopted the 3 year
interim flows plan and that the time is right for focusing on the future of
the Delaware tailwater rivers. The science is being put into place that will
give us the technical data needed to make our strongest case for the health
of all the rivers, the whole watershed. And we have maintained all along
that it is the health of the entire system that concerns us as a
conservation organization. The future is about taking the positive steps
that have occurred to this point (both scientifically and politically) and
creating a long term and viable change in how flows will be managed in the
future. And politics is central to how this will happen.do not underestimate
the amount of work that has gone into keeping all the decreed parties at the
table. No proposal will be supported unless it meets the approval of the
States of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and NY City.and no
proposal has or will be seriously considered if it doesn't take all the
complex political considerations into effect and backs it up with the
science to alleviate the issues of all concerned.

In the meantime, New York chapters should consult with me or with Rocci
Aguirre before taking any formal position on the issue, including writing to
any agencies or public officials. If we do not take this step, we run the
risk of TU chapters taking inconsistent positions, with inconsistent
information, as some have. This can affect our effectiveness on the issue
and our credibility as an organization.

Respectfully yours,
Ron Urban, NYS Council TU Chairman
----------------------------------------

FUDR Response:


Mr. Ron Urban, President
New York State Council of Trout Unlimited

"Council Members and Friends"

Dear Mr. Urban,

In your recent mass e-mail, you correctly observed that many chapters and
organizations have endorsed the Friends of the Upper Delaware River; in
fact, in the past couple of months, over thirty chapters and organizations
have endorsed the fisheries plan put forth by the FUDR. And we are grateful
for that support.

You can be certain we agree that the fisheries plan drafted by the Delaware
River Basin Commission is a matter of great concern, and we were surprised
at your suggestion that you have been working on the Delaware fishery issues
"over the last several years." Particularly since there has been no mention
of the issues, proposals or dialogue regarding the Delaware in any of the
State Council's newsletters for the past two years, nor has there been any
private missives from you to at least a fair number of the chapter
presidents regarding these issues, nor has there been anything on the
Council's web site. Why has there been no disclosure of these issues to the
chapters or to the individual TU members until now Mr. Urban? Could it be
that you were concerned the dissemination of information regarding the
DRBC's proposed plan would raise a negative reaction from New York State TU
members?

In your e-mail, you also speak of FUDR not coordinating or communicating
with the New York State TU Council - of which you are the President. I would
point out, Mr. Urban, that it is very difficult to either communicate or to
coordinate when we did not receive the courtesy of a response to the four
separate and verifiable requests we've made collectively to both you and to
Mr. Aguirre, over the past three and a half months; specifically to discuss
what should be our mutual objective - the preservation and enhancement of a
wild trout fishery. In fact, rather than to respond to those requests, you
sent an e-mail 'gag order' to various key TU members directing them to send
any communications from FUDR directly to you and not to disseminate the
information. In contrast, we believe that the chapters and, indeed, the
individual members have a right to that information, and to decide for
themselves which plan - that recommended by FUDR, or that put forth by the
DRBC with the support of New York City - is in the best interests of the
Delaware's wild trout fishery. Moreover, we would suggest that it is State
Councils responsibility to reflect the majority viewpoint of a membership
that has been well - and equitably - informed of their options.

Further, in separate e-mails, you have asserted that FUDR's only interest is
not the well being of the fishery, rather to merely seek publicity. And you
have sent e-mail to a good many chapter presidents and individual members
characterizing our communications as "spam" - a federal offense. Since these
kinds of assertions and characterizations can serve no positive or
constructive purpose, I can only assume they were rather shallow attempts to
be both divisive and inflammatory, and they are certainly not consistent
with NYSCTU's own mission statement. In this regard also, I would point out
that FUDR does not feel that divisiveness or intentional
mischaracterizations serve any positive purpose for either the fly fishing
community in general or, more importantly, for the Delaware fishery. That is
why, until now, we have refrained from responding to your continued reckless
and inflammatory assertions. Still, there is a limit, Mr. Urban, to what any
organization can legitimately put up with in the interest of unity. It is
the increasing frequency of your blatant and public assertions about not
only our activities, but also about our motives, character and our
sincerity, that has unfortunately brought us to this point. We will not
suffer further, these kinds accusations.

In your closing paragraph you state, once again that the "chapters should
consult with me or Rocci Aguirre before taking any formal position on this
issue." I'd suggest that you take a look at our web site (www.fudr.org) and
you'll note that a great many chapters have already endorsed the FUDR plan -
despite your hardball efforts to have them rescind that support. On this
point, I'd also share with you that this particular hardball tactic has led
more than a few to wonder weather your concern is more a question of "turf,"
than of what is in the best interests of a wild trout fishery.

In conclusion, Mr. Urban, we remain hopeful that we can work constructively
with TU National on the issues of the Upper Delaware fishery. However, as
for the NY State Council, your blind criticism and faulty posturing in an
ill advised attempt to subvert our mission of serving the Upper Delaware
wild trout fishery - through any efforts other than your own - serves only
to increase our fears for the future of that fishery and, further, to
strengthen our resolve.

Craig Findley, President
Friends of the Upper Delaware River

"Viscount Turbot d'espery Ling OBE" wrote:

Well, no, he didn't write, he copied.

Sounds like a new address for Muskie. It wasn't cross posted, so maybe
not.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html
San Juan Pictures at:
http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html

Chas

[that's pronounced chazzzzzzzzzz]


Wade wrote in message:
Sounds like a new address for Muskie. It wasn't cross posted, so maybe
not.

Chas
..........

Who he... may I ask?

Viscount d'E. Turbot Ling, OBE MPSE ret.

"Viscount Turbot d'espery Ling OBE" wrote:

Chas

[that's pronounced chazzzzzzzzzz]


Wade wrote in message:
Sounds like a new address for Muskie. It wasn't cross posted, so
maybe
not.

Chas
.........

Who he... may I ask?


Well, he's a guy who insists on posting off topic political crap, and
he posts the whole text of the messages instead of links. His poor
netequette (at least as poor as my spelling) has resulted in several
flame wars here.

Oh yes, he also picks absurd pseudonyms.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html
San Juan Pictures at:
http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html

Chas
[that's pronounced chazzzzzzzzzz] Wade writes:

Well, he's a guy who insists on posting off topic political crap, and
he posts the whole text of the messages instead of links. His poor
netequette (at least as poor as my spelling) has resulted in several
flame wars here.
Chas
.........

Off topic? Cross posts? Not I.

I'm even bottom posting for you!

Cheeze chas!

I choze that article cause it wuz about flyfishing and water releases on the
Upper Delaware River.

Regards,
Viscount

"Viscount Turbot d'espery Ling OBE" wrote:

Chas
[that's pronounced chazzzzzzzzzz] Wade writes:

Well, he's a guy who insists on posting off topic political crap, and
he posts the whole text of the messages instead of links. His poor
netequette (at least as poor as my spelling) has resulted in several
flame wars here.
Chas
........

Off topic? Cross posts? Not I.

Indeed, my mistake.

I'm even bottom posting for you!

Cheeze chas!

I choze that article cause it wuz about flyfishing and water releases
on the
Upper Delaware River.

Regards,
Viscount

I think this failed to post the first time, so I'm trying again:

You see, I just can't believe that you are either a real Viscount, or
that your mother
named you that in a fit of cruelty. Seeing the bogus name and the long
post with not
so much as an introduction lead me to the eroneous assumption that this
was a Musky
post.

Some of us (well at least one of us anyway) don't have the patience to
read a pair of
letters, derive the context from them, and then decide if we care about
that context.
If you'd posted a cpouple sentences of your own prose introducing the
topic, and
possibly explaining why you think it's worth my time to read, I'd have
made an informed
decision to not read it, and I wouldn't have started this irrelevant
discussion.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html
San Juan Pictures at:
http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html

"Viscount Turbot d'espery Ling OBE" wrote:

Chas
[that's pronounced chazzzzzzzzzz] Wade writes:

Well, he's a guy who insists on posting off topic political crap, and
he posts the whole text of the messages instead of links. His poor
netequette (at least as poor as my spelling) has resulted in several
flame wars here.
Chas
........

Off topic? Cross posts? Not I.

Indeed, my mistake.

I'm even bottom posting for you!

Cheeze chas!

I choze that article cause it wuz about flyfishing and water releases
on the
Upper Delaware River.

Regards,
Viscount

I think this failed to post the first time, so I'm trying again:

You see, I just can't believe that you are either a real Viscount, or
that your mother
named you that in a fit of cruelty. Seeing the bogus name and the long
post with not
so much as an introduction lead me to the eroneous assumption that this
was a Musky
post.

Some of us (well at least one of us anyway) don't have the patience to
read a pair of
letters, derive the context from them, and then decide if we care about
that context.
If you'd posted a cpouple sentences of your own prose introducing the
topic, and
possibly explaining why you think it's worth my time to read, I'd have
made an informed
decision to not read it, and I wouldn't have started this irrelevant
discussion.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html
San Juan Pictures at:
http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html

Chas Wade in message:
I think this failed to post the first time, so I'm trying... [snipped]

Chas
.............

o.k.

Viscount d'E. Ling-Tubot, OBE

On Wed, 12 May 2004 21:52:55 -0400, "Viscount Turbot d'espery Ling
OBE" wrote:

Chas Wade in message:
I think this failed to post the first time, so I'm trying... [snipped]

Chas
............

o.k.

Viscount d'E. Ling-Tubot, OBE


__________________________________________________ ________

The bottom line is that if you fish anywhere on the Upper Delaware
River in NY/ PA, this matter should concern you. We need consistent
releases out of Cannonsville Reservoir to preserve the wild trout
fishery.

Check out the FUDR website for more information regarding this topic.
http://www.FUDR.org. Nothing is for sale on the site, there is
nothing to sign up for, and it is a non profit organization. The only
thing you'll find on the site is information regard the issues
surrounding the Upper Delaware System and what you might be able to do
to assist in getting consistent flows.

Thanks.

__________________________________________________ ________


-=SAGE=-
http://www.njflyfishing.com
0 Limit,Catch -n- Release