Lacka Hatch

I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
Pete.
Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
and Pete
told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
late 1960s,
when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
it had
the whirlies.

Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
existent.
What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
pesticides.
The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
(although nothing
like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
water
filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
undiluted
runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
an every
increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.

Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
from
50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."

Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
they used to be.

On Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
Pete.
Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
and Pete
told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
late 1960s,
when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
it had
the whirlies.

Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
existent.
What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
pesticides.
The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
(although nothing
like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
water
filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
undiluted
runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
an every
increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.

Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
from
50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."

Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
they used to be.

Great story.

Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
them hopper flies. Watch for bears".

On 13-Feb-2008, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

n Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
Pete.
Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
and Pete
told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
late 1960s,
when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
it had
the whirlies.

Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
existent.
What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
pesticides.
The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
(although nothing
like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
water
filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
undiluted
runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
an every
increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.

Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
from
50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."

Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
they used to be.

Great story.

Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
them hopper flies. Watch for bears".

And another great story - thanks guys

It was always better in the olden days - they say???
In these cases it is probably true,

They say that Patagonia is like MT 50-75 yrs ago
Thats why it is on my list Wow!

Fred

Fred

wrote:
On 13-Feb-2008, Halfordian Golfer wrote:

n Feb 13, 12:47 pm, salmobytes wrote:
I spent yesterday afternoon visiting my old friend Tom and his buddy
Pete.
Tom is 68 and Pete 87. These old Ennis Montana old timers are among
the oldest (former) Montana fishing guides still kicking around. Tom
and Pete
told me stories about fishing the Missouri below Tosten dam in the
late 1960s,
when mayfly hatches were so thick the surface of the river looked like
it had
the whirlies.

Today, some 40 odd years later, the hatches there are nearly non-
existent.
What's made the difference? Tom said he thinks it's agricultural
pesticides.
The Missouri down near Wolf Creek still has some good hatches
(although nothing
like they used to be) but that water comes out of three dam, deep
water
filtering system. The Missouri in the Tosten area shallow, containing
undiluted
runnoff from millions of acres of fields, all sprayed regularly with
an every
increasing diversity of noxious chemicals.

Tom said he'd asked various Fish and Game biologists about his theory.
They all said "Sure, we think that too. But we have no baseline data
from
50 years ago, and therefore no way to prove the allegation."

Still, as the old timers can tell you, the hatches are nothing like
they used to be.
Great story.

Reminds me of this guy I'd see sitting out in his pickup truck at the
South Canyon dump near Glenwood Springs. I swear, he'd just sit out
there all damned day. I was clearing some brush so was making dozens
of trips out every weekend for a whole summer. Well, I got to know him
pretty well. He was old, I know that, how old? Not sure. One time I
told him I'd been fishing on main elk creek and he said, "Ya, I used
to go up there, but I quit. Too easy. All a feller needs is one of
them hopper flies. Watch for bears".

And another great story - thanks guys


I concur some great stories.



It was always better in the olden days - they say???
In these cases it is probably true,


They say that Patagonia is like MT 50-75 yrs ago
Thats why it is on my list Wow!


That nostalgia thing often is just that. In the US, the quality and
quantity if fishing available is MUCH greater than it was 50 years ago.
The only downside, IMO, is that it is also much more crowded. 50 years
ago a fly fisherman was an odd sort of guy who fished in rubber pants.
Today fly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.

Willi

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:24:59 -0700, Willi wrote:

50 years
ago a fly fisherman was an odd sort of guy who fished in rubber pants.
Today fly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.

And breathable waders have a lot to do with it being cooler. g
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.

Willi

Hi Willi:

Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
from 20 years back).

And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
(now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.

On Feb 14, 10:05 am, salmobytes wrote:
ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.



Willi

Hi Willi:

Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
from 20 years back).

And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
(now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.

This seems like a serious problem to me. Worth a letter to MF&G or the
State Capital? Maybe even MTU?

Tim

salmobytes wrote:
ly fishing is a "cool" thing to do.
Willi

Hi Willi:

Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
from 20 years back).

And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
(now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.



I wasn't disputing what your observations I was just reacting to "good
old days" nostalgia (which can be fun!).

I grew up in the Midwest. When I was a kid, the Great Lakes were "dead"
and we were told that it would take 100's of years for them to get
clean, one river was so polluted it caught on fire!, soapsuds would pile
up in my local creeks so high that the piles were over my head, people
routinely littered and pulloffs nears streams were often laden with old
refrigerators, cars etc., communities had to find alternative sources of
drinking water because of pollution, etc.

Willi

On Feb 14, 10:10 am, Halfordian Golfer wrote:
This seems like a serious problem to me. Worth a letter to MF&G or
the
State Capital? Maybe even MTU?

Tim

In Montana you *complete freedom* to say anything you want, as long as
it isn't
in any way anti-agriculture, pro gun control, pro-abortion
pro-marijuana, tolerant of flag burning, pro-gay rights,
pro-muslim, anti-christian, anti-logging or anti-mining.

.....and for all the taboo topics on that list, agriculture is by far
the hottest hot button issue.

On 14-Feb-2008, Willi wrote:

Yes, a lot of places are better. But that waaay down low
stretch on the Missouri (in a heavily farmed agricultural area)
really is noticably worse than it was 20 years ago (I remember it
from 20 years back).

And those old timers were talking about that Deepdale stretch
(now called York's Island) 50 years ago when (they said) there
were prolific hatches there. And now hardly a bug to be seen.



I wasn't disputing what your observations I was just reacting to "good
old days" nostalgia (which can be fun!).

I grew up in the Midwest. When I was a kid, the Great Lakes were "dead"
and we were told that it would take 100's of years for them to get
clean, one river was so polluted it caught on fire!, soapsuds would pile
up in my local creeks so high that the piles were over my head, people
routinely littered and pulloffs nears streams were often laden with old
refrigerators, cars etc., communities had to find alternative sources of
drinking water because of pollution, etc.

Willi

I have to admit that in some cases things are getting better
The State is trying to clean up the ness left by minimg companie on the
Clark Fork and other rivers
There is a big program near Missoula to remove years of toxic sediment

Fred