OT You cannot leave.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...otes110504.DTL

A much needed pep talk well and rightly said.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Ken Fortenberry wrote:


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...otes110504.DTL

A much needed pep talk well and rightly said.

Not so fast, you stinkin' liberal. ;-)

Once again the point is being missed (not that it's a bad thing).
Read
this quote from the author:
"And besides, most hardcore Republicans would, of course, love it if
you'd leave the country, and take your gul-dang gay-lovin'
tofu-eatin'
tree-huggin' pierced-labia values with you. They would love it,
furthermore, if the libs in the morally shredded red states would
split
for the coastal cities and the major metropolises of America, all
those
godless heathen places where the neighbors won't yank the
Kerry/Edwards
sign outta your front lawn and chase you down and beat you with it
and
call it patriotism. Remember: bullies never deserve to own the
playground."

In another example of misguided and framed condescending tone, the
far
left again "endears" itself to people with whom it must conduct
discourse if the Democrats ever hope to acheive victory. This kind
of
venom-spewing article is why moderate Republicans and independent
voters
have been driven away from the Democratic Party in droves. Someone
in
the party had better decide how to gain the respect and attention of
the
voters who swayed the election, and it ain't by calling them a bunch
of
dimwitted morons. Articles like the one you reference are "preaching
to
the choir" when addressing far-left liberals, and irritating the
hell
out of everyone else.

Believe what you will, but if the next Democratic nominee for POTUS
sports a never-before-worn Red Sox cap claiming a fake care whether
they
ever win or lose another game, spouts in a proper-Bostonian
counterfeit
hick accent "Can I get me a huntin' license here?", and then has an
assistant carry his bird from the hunt because "he's tired", he or
she
won't get elected either. This kind of ruse isn't fooling anyone,
especially the "dumb and illiterate" voters of the South and
Midwest.
Keep it up.

All very interesting, but none of it has anything to do with the
recent ascendancy of the Republican party. The current lopsided
predominance of one party over the other is a result of one of them
relearning one of the oldest of political lessons; in a highly
segmented society power rests with those who do the best job
delivering a genuine appeal to traditional values......fear, greed,
and hate.

Wolfgang

Larry L wrote:
Wolfgang wrote

The current lopsided
predominance of one party over the other is a result of one of them
relearning one of the oldest of political lessons; in a highly
segmented society power rests with those who do the best job
delivering a genuine appeal to traditional values......fear, greed,
and hate.

.... very true

Many would agree. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Wolfgang wrote:
"Tim J." wrote in message
...
Wolfgang wrote:

All very interesting, but none of it has anything to do with the
recent ascendancy of the Republican party.

I disagree, but what's new.

The current lopsided
predominance of one party over the other is a result of one of them
relearning one of the oldest of political lessons; in a highly
segmented society power rests with those who do the best job
delivering a genuine appeal to traditional values......fear, greed,
and hate.

*Both* major parties delivered that message, so you're going to have
to do better than that.

I DID do better than that. I said, "...power rests with *those who do
the best job* of delivering a genuine appeal to traditional values..."

Besides, I really don't think it has as much to do
with the message (weak on both sides, IMHO) as the messenger.

Again, what I said.

Voters
related better to Bush than Kerry. One of the best at relating to the
people during a campaign was Bill Clinton. He was able to say "I feel
your pain" and have voters believe him and, by association, his
message.

Yup.

Yes, I guess you *did* say all that, didn't you? Whaddaya expect from
some dumb, ignorant hick who was born in Ohio?
--
TL,
Tim
(I gotta get me some reading lessons)
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Tim J. wrote:
snip
Read this quote from the author: ...

Actually I prefer this one:

"You cannot leave. You cannot drop the armor now. Why? Because you
are needed, more than ever. You are mandatory to keep the energy
flowing, the karmic vibrator buzzing, to keep the progressive and
lucid half of the nation breathing and healthy and awake and ever
reaching out to the half that's wallowing in fear and violence and
homophobia and sexual dread, hoping to find harmony instead of
cacophony, common ground instead of civil war, some sort of a shared
love of a country so messy and internationally disrespected and
openly confused its own president can't even speak the language."

Yeah, that one addresses my point just as well. Thanks. And I really
*do* appreciate you reaching out to me to help me find some common
ground. ;-)
--
Your wallowing ****wit pal,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

In article ,
lid says...
Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
A much needed pep talk well and rightly said.

Not so fast, you stinkin' liberal. ;-)

Once again the point is being missed (not that it's a bad thing).

Of course evangelical Christians are ****wits, of course they're
dumber than stumps. **** 'em. The stupid creeps don't even turn
out to vote unless their slimy little buttons are pushed. The
Democrats cannot blur the differences between good people and
fundamentalist ****wits, they have to shine the light of decency
and social justice and REAL American values on those cockroaches
and watch them scatter.

Ya gotta love it. You're so far to the left that you can't even
see that both extremes have their f*#kwits. Your left extreme
is just as out of touch with the mainstream as their right extreme.
Until they kick you far left folks out of the primaries, the democrats
are screwed.

To compete with Dean, Kerry had to slide far left "Wrong war, wrong
time", then try to make it back to the center "I'd still vote to
go to war knowing what we know today". This alone, de-energized his
base while the center-right viewed him "rightfully?" as wishy-washy
and saying whatever he had to say in order to win.

Until you guys learn to have conviction in whatever you do, you're
going no where.
- Ken

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Tim J. wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
Actually I prefer this one:

"You cannot leave. You cannot drop the armor now. Why? Because you
are needed, more than ever. You are mandatory to keep the energy
flowing, the karmic vibrator buzzing, to keep the progressive and
lucid half of the nation breathing and healthy and awake and ever
reaching out to the half that's wallowing in fear and violence and
homophobia and sexual dread, hoping to find harmony instead of
cacophony, common ground instead of civil war, some sort of a shared
love of a country so messy and internationally disrespected and
openly confused its own president can't even speak the language."

Yeah, that one addresses my point just as well. Thanks. And I really
*do* appreciate you reaching out to me to help me find some common
ground. ;-)

Not my job, Timmmaaaaay. That's what politicians do, and if you
haven't noticed by now, I'd make a LOUSY politician. ;-)

My job right now is to be bitter and depressed and ****ed off
that I live in a country that's so bloody ****ing stupid as to
elect the Yellow Rogue of Texas as its president.

Well that and get my **** packed for a truly horrible trip to
Alabama and the subsequent mental health detour to do some
fishing in the Old North State.

Yeah, good luck with the stuff in AL - I hope all goes as well as can be
expected for you. I'd like to join you in TONS, but *that's* not going
to happen. By the time Penns rolls around, I'm going to be in serious
need of a mental health detour myself.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

All very interesting, but none of it has anything to do with the
recent ascendancy of the Republican party. The current lopsided
predominance of one party over the other is a result of one of them
relearning one of the oldest of political lessons; in a highly
segmented society power rests with those who do the best job
delivering a genuine appeal to traditional values......fear, greed,
and hate.

Actually, the core is "lack of change." "I want a world like my
grandparents had, with their value system (none of this gay marriage
thing), where everyone went to church on Sunday and America could stand
alone against the world." As you stated, much of that "core value
system" was a result of fear engendered by the world political situation
(Russia, China, Germany) or the church (Hell). We've now got terrorists
and Hell is making a big comeback. Put a politician in that plays on
those fears and promises to get us back on the God fearing track and
he'll get elected. Done and doner.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse Email to reply

"Tim J." wrote

Yeah, that one addresses my point just as well. Thanks. And I really
*do* appreciate you reaching out to me to help me find some common
ground. ;-)
--
Your wallowing ****wit pal,
Tim
------------------------


My response to the editorial was instant " damn, we don't need this guy on
OUR side" ... if I saw the "left" and "liberals" as being like him, I might
even sink to voting for Bush ... slinging hate filled vulgarity is NOT what
I stand for ( this was especially endearing " You become a bit more wary and
alert and you stock up on the superlative porn ....").

"Left wing" hate is no better than chanting "kill a liberal for Christ"

I'm not sure how, or, if, it pertains but here is something I wrote a couple
years ago ..... and I think it applies to BOTH sides now that the battle
lines are more obvious, the civil war more likely, .... but still more to
the right than the left ....

.................................................. .............................
.................................................. .............................

To me, the most frightening thing about the increasing number of people on
the 'far right' is how many of them are so hate filled. Indeed the move to
the right is largely being fueled by the cheap fix of hate ... something
with far too much destructive history to ignore.

Giving "permission to hate" is probably the easiest way to manipulate the
masses, it's worked over and over throughout history. I'm sad to say that
this country is showing clear signs of a decade of having "spokesmen" from
the Right give permission to hate. First to hate, but never really define,
"liberals." Then, oh so conveniently, to call most anything you don't
like, "liberal," and thus make it hated.

I honestly believe that anger and hate are addictive. This is partly
because they provide the "cheapest fix" for those needing a "self esteem"
boost. A second reason is that the strong emotion involved "spices" lives
that are otherwise too bland to tolerate.... feeling bad being "better"
than not feeling, at all.

Both are far less costly ... in terms of current real effort required, than
alternate ways to achieve the desired "quick fix." ...but, of course, very
expensive over a lifetime, like all addictions.

Through hatred one can always see oneself as "better than" others without
the tedious work involved in actually doing anything to prove that
superiority. It is so tempting and easy to fall into this trap, that it is
one of the classic ways to manipulate populations.

Give people a group or person to hate and they will follow where otherwise
they would never go .... it has worked for "leaders" throughout history, and
continues to work today. Bin Laden "allows and encourages" hate of the
West and suddenly, some of the poorest people on earth, living in wretched
conditions, feel "better than," some of the richest ... and are willing to
die ... to maintain that feeling .

It's a working strategy, on the other side too. An enemy to hate has
certainly vastly increased the "popularity" and political strength of
people in the U.S. ...people that have actually done nothing to justify it.

Indeed, the Rush to the Right we're seen in this country the last decade
has largely been fueled by the power of hate .. unintentionally at first (
Rush, himself, has nothing but hate .... i.e. lowering others ... without it
he'd still be a poor, lonely, misfit ) .... then when it was seen how big a
following it was getting, intentionally within the "right'

People, leaders of not, often don't want to give up the "advantages" they
find in hating.....they become addicted to it. In the case of leaders they
even look for new enemies to give you permission to hate ... to manipulate
you


Here are two quick real stories from my life. I believe they illustrate
the dynamic I'm trying to discuss ...blind hate making people "feel better
about themselves" at no real cost ( except the obvious spiritual ones )

first, about 1952

Walking with my grandmother down the street in a rural Va town, where she
worked as a maid, and was a poor white.

A very well dressed, clearly very successful, black woman approached from
the other direction, and my grandmother said to granddad, "Look at that
******, walking down the street, like she was as good as us."

I was about 6 and thank God I saw that for what it is,
......you can always feel good about yourself, without ANY actual achievement
or contribution, IF you allow yourself to hate
.... here was a poor white, whose only way to find "self respect" was to
lower others
... it's a common theme amongst humans


second story

about 1998 or 9

A young man was working as apprentice to me, and simply lacked the needed
emotional and mental tools to succeed in my business .... he was having a
rough time. I was having to repeatedly point out his errors.

One morning I finally suggested that he might be happier trying a different
field.

I'm sure his self esteem was suffering, he looked very 'down.'

We took separate cars to a new location, and he listened to his
"conservative talk radio" on the drive.

We we arrived he got out of the car, absolutely brimming with smile. He
said, in all seriousness, " I may not be worth **** at this, but, at least
I'm not a ****ing liberal."

He strutted around like a Banty rooster, having found a cheap way to be
"better than" so many people. Rush had told him it was OK to hate
"liberals," and it made him feel so good he glowed.

wrote:

Ya gotta love it. You're so far to the left that you can't even
see that both extremes have their f*#kwits. Your left extreme
is just as out of touch with the mainstream as their right extreme.

Actually, the right extreme ****wits won 51 to 48. Do try to keep up.

Until you guys learn to have conviction in whatever you do, you're
going no where.

On this we agree. The Dems have got to quit "triangulating" and
start making the case for economic justice and social justice.

--
Ken Fortenberry