Caddis Pupae

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.

I've done the Google image scan and only dredged up a few worthwhile
candidates.

The goal is to be able to reproduce the most important species as
Yorkshire style wets for fishing on a swung line.

Peter

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"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.

I've done the Google image scan and only dredged up a few worthwhile
candidates.

The goal is to be able to reproduce the most important species as
Yorkshire style wets for fishing on a swung line.

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Peter, do you have a copy of the LaFontaine book:Caddisflies??
I could scan stuff in ,but the colors will get screwed up for sure.
Tom

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:57:10 GMT, "Thomas Littleton"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.

I've done the Google image scan and only dredged up a few worthwhile
candidates.

The goal is to be able to reproduce the most important species as
Yorkshire style wets for fishing on a swung line.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Peter, do you have a copy of the LaFontaine book:Caddisflies??
I could scan stuff in ,but the colors will get screwed up for sure.
Tom


Thanks. Yes I do, plus a few others and the pupae section is always
thin. LaFontaine as a good descriptive section on behaviour but he's
very thin on colour plates. I have one pictu

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/cadpupa3a.jpg

that I found on the net -- you can see what I'm trying to work with.

Basically, three types of flies on the drawing board: classic
Yorkshire wets but more tuned to colour and size, a dead drift pupal
imitation, and a good emerger using CDC.

Peter

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"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.


Search on "Sedge" pupae. that should turn up a bit more.

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:
"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.


Search on "Sedge" pupae. that should turn up a bit more.

TL
MC

Also try "sedge larvae" and here is a start using "Trichoptera larvae".

http://images.google.com/images?q=Tr...ff&sa=N&tab=wi



HTH.



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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:15:34 +0100, "Mike Connor"
wrote:


"Peter Charles" wrote in message
.. .

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.


Search on "Sedge" pupae. that should turn up a bit more.

TL
MC


Thanks for the suggestions guys, however, I'm hoping to find
entomology sites rather than fly tying sites so I can find the
pictures of the actual bugs rather than somebody's idea of what the
fly should be.

LaFontaine talks about how he found himself totally at odds with
conventional wisdom caddis emergence. Frankly, I think we
(speaking of the fly fishing community) has done a **** poor job of
understanding the pupal stages of various caddis genera. The fly
fishers of a 100 years ago or more put the time in to learn what works
in the way of Yorkshire wets, etc. but a lot of the patterns today
don't square with what I've read from LaFontaine or from entomology
sites.

As an example, there are a helluva lot of patterns for caddis larvae
but excpet for Rhyacophilia and a few other free swimmers, most
species are net or case so they're not available to trout in a free
drifting form except at dawn or dusk when the biological drift occurs.
Sure the larval flies will take fish but a dead drifted pupa, fished
at the right depth will take a helluva lot more if it's fished during
an emergence.

Nor do we spend enough time with diving females. My very first trout
was taken on an EHC when I was dragging it behind me as I waded
upstream. Hardly the romantic image of one's first trout, but an
object lesson that cadddis don't behave like mayflies. I've since
taken a lot of fish on diving caddis.

Caddis emerge sporadically, rather than as a blizzard, so our window
with caddis is much larger than with mayflies. They hatch over a much
larger period of time, plus they live for weeks in the adult form so
for fly fishers, they offer a lot of opportunities. It's worth doing
the research.

Last year, I put some effort into developing caddis wets with a bit of
success. It was enough to encourage further efforts into producing a
class of flies specifically targeting caddis emergence on either the
swung line or the sunk line. Hopefully they'll take a few fish this
year too.



Peter

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Peter Charles wrote:

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
. ..

Looking for photos of real caddis pupea of the more common genera like
Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophilia.


Search on "Sedge" pupae. that should turn up a bit more.

TL
MC



Thanks for the suggestions guys, however, I'm hoping to find
entomology sites rather than fly tying sites so I can find the
pictures of the actual bugs rather than somebody's idea of what the
fly should be.

try http://www.usask.ca/biology/skabugs/caddis/trichop.html . There is a
picture of a pupae on this page. Pictures of caddis puape are not easy
to come bu; there are a few in the aquatic insect texts I use. I think
the photo on the above link is pretty representative...they look lke
like fat larvae with stumpy wings anbd long legs.

Tim Lysyk

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
..
Sure the larval flies will take fish but a dead drifted pupa, fished
at the right depth will take a helluva lot more if it's fished during
an emergence.

admitted, but has LaFontaine's sparkle pupae been improved upon??
The colors might be tinkered with a bit, but a lot of what a fish seems to
see of pupae is brightness and reflected light.

Nor do we spend enough time with diving females. My very first trout
was taken on an EHC when I was dragging it behind me as I waded
upstream. Hardly the romantic image of one's first trout, but an
object lesson that cadddis don't behave like mayflies. I've since
taken a lot of fish on diving caddis.

I'm convinced many,if not most, of the trout I've taken on traditional
winged wets we due to trout looking for diving female caddis.

.. It's worth doing
the research.

It's damn near a religion to do so where I live.....the Tulpehocken is a
tail water, and as such, has a lot of different caddis of all sizes.
Imitation of them at several stages is a necessity to succeed much of the
season.

Last year, I put some effort into developing caddis wets with a bit of
success. It was enough to encourage further efforts into producing a
class of flies specifically targeting caddis emergence on either the
swung line or the sunk line. Hopefully they'll take a few fish this
year too.

Have I unloaded any Submergers on you?? If not, remind me at Penn's.
Or, as an old Jefferson Airplane song was titled, "Something of Value will
come to you Shortly"(or, something like that). At any rate, I want you to
give me an A/B trial with your technique versus your emerger and female
diver imitations. You might like them.

Tom

"Tim Lysyk" wrote

.. I think
the photo on the above link is pretty representative...they look lke like
fat larvae with stumpy wings anbd long legs.



That is my impression also ... and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think
entomologists would seek out the pupa for identification purposes so they
are more likely to have pictures of cases and larva

Good images, even a good real time, head bent to the water, glimpse of any
of the transitional
periods of emergence are damn hard to come by ... harder than troutG

You can cut pupa out of cases and get things that look like
the picture in Tim's link. "Caddis and the angler"
has a picture or two, and there are Schwiebert's drawings in
"Nymphs" All look much the same in basic form. The only "in the water"
pictures I have are in "Emergers" by Swisher and Richards ... and they are
very poor and B&W but suggest exactly the same form.

But the question is if that is what they look like when available
to the fish. As you know, LaFontaine and others say "no" that a big shiny
bubble is more like what the trout see. I have never been able to
confirm that, and have never seen anything 'real' that actually looks
like a sparkle pupa or Iris caddis etc but I've never SCUBA dived and
tried to get the fish's eye view.

Let us know if you find any good pictures, Peter, of emerging mayflies too,
if you happen on them.

Oh, and I have seined small cased caddis from the daytime drift on a couple
spring creeks ( near the surface!) and Lawson and Harrop both report
fish "rising" to them on the HFork, although I've never been able to confirm
that...... To me this remains like floating snails, I've seen 'em, the
'experts' say trout eat 'em, it makes sense, but I ain't caught a fish on
one yetG

"Peter Charles" wrote


Thanks for the suggestions guys, however, I'm hoping to find
entomology sites rather than fly tying sites so I can find the
pictures of the actual bugs rather than somebody's idea of what the
fly should be.


In my limited experience you are dead on track .... catching the real bug
and using that as a model is FAR more satisfying than imitating an imitation
..... but 99% of flies are developed the second way, varying existing
patterns without ever looking at a bug.

After your research, you'll likely end up with something similar to existing
flies but you'll fish it with much more confidence ... the key ingredient of
any pattern, imho.

I'm just started on my own selection of "copied from real models" patterns,
maybe 1/3 the bugs I fish over ... it is very worth the effort.

The first was a Trico spinner 10 years ago. After a long not very
successful day watching fish reject a store bought poly wing spinner on
Silver Creek I broke down, seined some bugs, got out the magnifier and ...
Whoa, Homer .. they don't look that much like the store bought pattern. I
dug through my stuff, tied up a couple different experiments and the next
day I hooked fish nearly at will, even broke one fish off then landed him
later with my new pattern still stuck in his jaw and got my fly back. I
got so damn arrogant that I stopped on Kilpatrick Bridge and told some guy
to pick out a fish and I'd catch it ... did catch the one he pointed to, too
G ( although I detected his "what as asshole" glance and have regretted my
arrogant display ever since then .... but that is what real models can do to
you :-)

I know it's Winter, but catching the bug is better than even a good picture