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#21
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence_Glickman wrote:
Joshua Putnam wrote: Lawrence_Glickman wrote: THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. Ever consider taking a properly-bottled sample to a competent testing lab that already owns the necessary equipment for a far more accurate analysis than you're likely to achieve at home? I know what is in the drinking water as far as the Village is willing to release to the public. They sent me ( as a homeowner ) an analysis a while back but for the life of me I can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it passed muster IMO, so maybe I tossed it. Did that at a previous hom because of exactly this sort of brown precipitate issue, and it was indeed simply a very high iron concentration. Turned out that beautiful light-gray sand our aquifer ran through was so high in iron that the sand would rust and turn brown if exposed to air for a few weeks. Well, iron is a necessary mineral for any healthy person, up to a point. Beyond that point, it becomes a POISON. 18 ( eighteen ) milligrams of Iron is accepted as the recommended daily allowance for one each adult human. Beyond that, you're asking for trouble. Also, the presence of bacteria in general won't confirm fecal origins, there are bacteria that thrive on dissolved iron in wells like that. A water district on the same aquifer had to repeatedly hoist and clean their well filters because the iron-loving bacteria would plug the intake filters. Zero coliform count, just lots of bacteria, and lots of iron. Actually, I read somewhere that it is a GOOD IDEA to let algae grow on your sediment prefilter, as this somehow helps in the water purification process. I don't remember the exact mechanism for this. I do know that I let algae ( green ) grown on my sediment pre-filter and do not *worry* about it contaminating anything. In fact, it helps in the cleansing process. I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. So in summary, there are 2 kinds of pollutants: organic inorganic ( chemicals ) Both can hurt you. Cryptosporidium closed down the Milwaukee Wisconsin water supply not to many years ago. There was a boil order in effect for many days befor that was brought under control. Did you know that as few as 3 to 5 Giardia Lamblia cysts can cause Giardiasis? Explosive diarrhea. The kind that can dehydrate and kill you if you don't get the correct medicines in time ( Flagyl, etc. ) in the right doses. I know of someone who went to Mexico and ended up spending over a month in hospital for treatment of Giardia Lamblia infection. Then there are the otherwise unexplained brain cancers, liver cancers, bowel cancers...I don't rule out the water supply as a contributor to these killers. Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? Lg good morning Lawrence. people for a long time have made themselves happy with thinking how their government loves them, takes care of them and puts their well being first and foremost above all. me, I've known for a long time how the government is a bunch of liars who steal, lie, cheat and work from behind closed doors in order to maintain their privileged class existence at the expense of the [tax paying module]. understanding of how the [tax paying module] has been placed at the bottom of the food chain by the government sheds light onto the truth concerning just how much the government really cares. government plays a nice lip service to the lowly [tax paying module] with nice catch phrases such as, The Clean Air and Water Act, and another catch phrase known as Super Fund. there are two kinds of contaminates in the drinking water supply, chemical and organic. both got into the water supply by man's own carelessness and neglect for what is actually the right thing to do. forever industry has taken the less expensive route of dumping the chemical and heavy metals waste with the least cost possible to itself. usually this means out the back door and onto the ground and without containment of any sort rain run off carries these contaminates into the ground water supply. cities such as Raleigh NC which have experienced unreal growth as a result of everyone in the universe wanting to live there can't keep up with the demands placed on their human sewage treatment facilities resulting in overflows. sometimes reported as spills they are necessary to keep the city running and provide for the need of people to release their excrement. it is a sad state of existence we find ourselves in today on this earth as a result of the greed of many who would abuse others for their own gain. with government bought and paid for by the wealthy controlling privileged class, there is little hope of anything changing for the good of the financially challenged members of mankind known to the government as the [tax paying module]. people don't like being shown how they've been used and abused for years. the revealing causes those who have been used to enter into a state of denial whereby they are compelled to reject any notion of any other human having abused them. from a sociological stand point all humans are driven to expound with vigorous argument constructed from elaborate detail of how they are in charge of their destiny and in possession of a greater understanding of all matters than any of their competing fellow inhabitants. for this reason whenever one human makes an attempt to explain to other humans there will always be rejection for the explanation. the drinking water is polluted. man did it. man now gets to live with that. |
#22
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence_Glickman wrote:
Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? I had a friend like you, but he also sold a very high priced water filters door to door. He died a few years back,, a truck hit his car, and killed him, while he was going to save another family's life with a new water filter. Selling water filters, is what killed him. -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
#23
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. Try American Science and Surplus (www.sciplus.com) They've got a nice-sounding 0060-1500X binocular microscope for only about $600. (there's cheaper ones too, down to about $130, but that's the nice one) |
#24
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial
water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
#25
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:17:36 -0500, Goedjn wrote:
I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. Try American Science and Surplus (www.sciplus.com) They've got a nice-sounding 0060-1500X binocular microscope for only about $600. (there's cheaper ones too, down to about $130, but that's the nice one) Excellent Goedin. BTW, does uri.edu stand for University of Rhode Island? I attended school there at one time at the Providence, R.I. extension, and -that- is where I studied invertebrate zoology. Quite challenging and rewarding. Very challenging. But not quite as bad as "logic" class. Do you know how to read heiroglyphs? You will if you make it through "logic" class ;( Here is my choice: Microscope 90197 and if I go for the Full Monte... phase contrast enhancement kit 14385 "Somewhere, over the rainbow, Blue Birds sing...." I'm dreaming again.... I will be happy to have the 90197 by itself, but the 14385 makes it so much more useful. Lg |
#26
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote:
You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. ================================================== ========= I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Here we go with the ad hominum. Quite to be expected from the likes of Neon John. Standard operating procedure. Absent real problems, You are a *real* problem. they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. Your argument doesn't hold water. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. I'm 60 years old, and was formally educated before calculators were invented to help you add two columns of numbers. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, That's a LIE John. What are your academic credentials? Finish High School did you? I spent 5 years in college, and no they were not all in the same classroom. rest of Neon John's psychosis ignored Lg they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
#27
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote:
All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. FACT: Many of these fish show mutations such as multiple eyes and fins where they are not supposed to be, along with cancerous tumors all over their bodies. FACT: They got this way by drinking Lake Michigan water. CONCLUSION: Neon John is full of ****, and nothing more than a rabid, foaming at the mouth denier. Lg You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
#28
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Do you suppose this guy smokes?
-----Original Message----- From: Lawrence Glickman ] Posted At: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:20 PM Posted To: fishing Conversation: Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe Subject: Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. FACT: Many of these fish show mutations such as multiple eyes and fins where they are not supposed to be, along with cancerous tumors all over their bodies. FACT: They got this way by drinking Lake Michigan water. CONCLUSION: Neon John is full of ****, and nothing more than a rabid, foaming at the mouth denier. Lg You're correct, of course, Don. To someone with lots of industrial water treatment experience such as myself, this guy comes across as a raving lunatic who has managed to find a water treatment glossary somewhere and is randomly picking words to use. The fact is, unless someone is ****ting in yer well, fecal matter does NOT add color to water. The dilution is simply too high. The detection method for fecal matter in water is the coliform bacteria that always accompanies it. Bacteria can be cultured until it has multiplied enough to be observable. The fecal matter itself cannot be. Moreover, if there is excess chlorine in the water, an EPA requirement, whatever is there is sterile. If any of what this lid says is true, most likely the sediment is carry-over from the floctreater. Muddy water is first treated with a floculating agent (alum is the most common) that causes the suspended matter to agglomerate into gelatinous masses that are easily removed by the subsequent sand filter. Sometimes this matter carries over during filter backflush or malfunction. Though it looks bad because it is mud-colored, it is harmless to humans. Don, your theory of sediment/rust in the system is also likely. In oversized feeders, the water velocity is low enough that traces of rust and sediment settle out. When something causes high velocity flow, say a fire or periodic flushings, the sediment is re-suspended and tints the water reddish orange to brown. Again, it is harmless, though it looks bad. The EPA's water quality standards which every water district must adhere to, requires the water turbidity, dissolved solids, dissolved oxygen and chlorine to be continuously monitored with on-line instruments. Previously via alarming strip-chart recorders and now more commonly computerized data logging systems. In addition, manually analyzed samples must be taken several times a shift and compared to the on-line monitoring as both validation calibration. Organic matter is also analyzed during these batch samples. The permissible levels of dissolved solids (including the evil, dastardly "heavy metals") and organic matter are so low as to be silly, orders of magnitude below that which causes any harm. Anyone wondering why his water bill has skyrocketed over the past few years, well there you go. Also correct, Don, is the observation that man wasn't created and doesn't live in a vacuum. We live in a sea of organisms, only a tiny proportion of which cause us any problems. That's what our immune systems are for. I wonder if this guys who's so phobic about something brown in his water is equally phobic of actual turds in various delicacies. After all, things like shrimp, lobster and other shellfish are eaten with their digestive tracts AND their turds intact. Sterilized by cooking in some cases, others such as raw oysters, not. I've developed a theory that this guy tends to validate. My theory is that some (many?) people have a mental flaw that demands there be a certain constant level of (dis)stress in their lives. Absent real problems, they make up things and/or believe the wildly improbable. Witness the phobias about such things as individual atoms of allegedly "bad" metals, for example. Back during my childhood, typhoid outbreaks still closed public places and the disease sometimes showed up in municipal water systems. Now all those awful water-borne diseases are conquered so some people have to make up stuff to fulfill their stress quotients. The utter destruction of the educational system over the past few decades undoubtedly plays a major part. After all, when people have no real experience or education in the sciences, they tend to believe patently absurd things such as little handheld explosives blowing up entire blocks and cars always exploding into fireballs when shot. And of course, the unknown and invisible but teeming critters and substances, all conspiring to harm those who Truly Believe(TM) Americans have never had safer food and water, better medical care, safer or longer lives in the history of man and yet some people still work themselves into froths over imaginary "dangers". I think my theory is on the verge of becoming an immutable law. John On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 04:47:10 +0000 (UTC), (Don Klipstein) wrote: In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence Glickman wrote in :
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! snip rant I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:18:55 -0500, Sheldon Harper
wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote in : On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:05:24 -0500, Neon John wrote: All the below is TRASH Neon John. Somewhat like your self-congratulatory self...rubbish. Do you know about fertilizer runoff? Do you KNOW that commercial fisheries are disallowed from harvesting ANYTHING from Lake Michigan because it is so contaminated with carcinogens? Look it up, Banjo Boy, before you open your fat mouth again on this newsgroup. FACT: fish in Lake Michigan are not fit for Human Consumption because of high concentrations of toxins from the water. FACT: Commercial fisheries are prohibited from harvesting marine life from Lake Michigan because of the above. ================================================== =========== I think you better alert the commercial fishing boats about it! They are in clear violation of the Law. I think you had better alert them. I'm about 20 or 30 minutes south of the most southern part of the Lake, and live in one of the most contaminated areas. This contamination is mostly from INDUSTRIAL EFFLUENT that has been pumped into the Lake over the course of the last century by Big Business, as in USS Steel. snip rant pity...I thought it was worthy of a repost I decided to take a look for myself, and this is some of what I found. "Bottom trawl nets are presently used on Lakes Michigan and Superior by fewer than 10 fishing vessels operating out of a few ports along mid-Green Bay, at Two Rivers on Lake Michigan and at Duluth on Lake Superior. Trawlers usually operate in the same area over a long period of time, so they are very predictable and easy to avoid." http://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/greatlakesfish/nets.html "Last winter the Department worked with commercial fishers to study incidental catch rates of lake trout in gill nets set for chubs during winter. Data were collected by Department employees riding commercial boats, with the fishers reimbursing the Department for the time and expenses of those biologists." http://dnr.wi.gov/org/water/fhp/fish/lakemich/Lake%20Michigan%20Fisheries%20News%20Sept%201997.h tm VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV "PCBs are present in some types of Lake Michigan fish at concentrations exceeding US FDA tolerances. Such elevated PCB levels have resulted in closure of some commercial fisheries and issuance of fish consumption advisories for sports fishing. PCBs contribute to reproductive problems and deformities in fish and wildlife (Mac 1988, Gilbertson, 1988)." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is worse that the government is willing to admit to the public. Much worse. BTW, the Vermillion River, which has nothing to do with Lake Michigan, is contaminated to dangerous levels with phosphates from farm fertilizer runoff. To the point it is also unfit for human consumption. Yet Ottawa Illinois and Streator Illinois get all their drinking water from this one contaminated source. Would you use a *filter* if you lived there? Or would you just dip and drink? http://www.epa.gov/glnpo/lmmb/substs.html And more on sport fishing on Lake Michigan: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/dec04/283365.asp |
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