practical problem (long)

Here's a practical problem that I ran into last week. Might be interesting
to see how folks here might solve it:

Last Friday I fished a stream in western North Carolina. About two miles of
the stream run through privately-owned land, and that portion is posted and
zealously protected. It has not been stocked in many years. It's owned by an
elderly farmer who prohibits fishing by virtually all others except a
fishing club in Charlotte which leases the rights to the stream and pays for
a game warden. And it's full of very large rainbows and browns. A 27-inch
brown trout was caught there the week before last, and I could see several
similar-sized trout in the water. The point is that the water contains large
trout and fishing pressure is low.

I spent about five hours fishing a stretch of water that runs generally from
east to west and is about 300 yards long. The hundred yards at the upper end
is fairly typical Smoky mountain pocket water, as the stream falls four or
five feet over that hundred yard distance and flows over and around numerous
rocks. The upper end has large trees on both sides and is well-shaded. The
two hundred yards below that is a pool, the bottom of which consists of
cobblestone-size pebbles with a sandy bottom in places. The pool ends with a
dam made of river rocks over which the water flows. It's about thirty feet
wide.

The south bank of the stream is a tangle of laurel and rhododendrons, much
of which overhangs the stream, and is impassable. The north side of the pool
(to the right as one faces downstream) is a bank about four feet high with
brush and small trees from the water to the top of the bank, followed by a
barbed-wire fence and a pasture beyond that. The middle of the pool is open
to the sky. There is little or no room to cast from either bank; the only
practical way to access the pool is from the water, although I suppose one
could use spinning gear and cast from places on the bank.

The pool ranges in depth from a foot or two at its head to five feet or more
near the dam. On this particular day, the air temperature was about 65 F and
it was cloudy. The water was crystal clear, and I could easily see the
bottom of the pool. There were a few mayfly spinners (about size 12 -14) in
the air, but very few. The fish were rising sporadically, and occasionally a
12 - 15 inch fish could be seen jumping completely out of the water. I could
also see rippling rises, presumably from fish sipping something off or just
below the surface. There were many fallen leaves floating, drifting in
mid-column, and on the bottom.

Wading into the stream at the downstream end of the pool means that you
almost immediately are in water up to the waist, and it quickly becomes
deeper. The current is slow enough in the pool that one can stand in
chest-deep water with some effort. But it also means a bit of staggering on
the cobblestone bottom, which makes enough noise to scare the fish.

Casting was a problem. With water to the middle of my chest, it was
virtually impossible for me to lift the line cleanly off the water, there
was not sufficient room for a good backcast, and rollcasting from that
awkward position meant lots of line splashing on the water with the fish
presumably running for cover. I tried drifting flies downstream, but could
not reach the area of the rises with a fly drifted from a distance upstream

Here's the question: how would you attack the pool? Rod and line size, fly
selection, and tactics? Or should I simply give the pool up as too difficult
and concentrate on the pocket water upstream? This may be one of the very
few times I've felt that long-distance casting was important.

FWIW, I was skunked. I spent almost five hours on that water, and wasted way
too much time chasing those lunkers, which I probably put down within a few
minutes


Bob
Who doesn't know what he would have done if he had actually hooked such a
fish on 6x tippet . . .

[snipped a neat problem]

love these type of posts . . .


These deep, slow pools bordered by brush are often the toughest
challenges as there's no way to approach them without some difficult
problem intruding.

Casting: __ Only one answer -- spey casting. It can be done with 6'
rods though her e, I'd probably us a fast 8 footer in the 2/3/4 wt.
range. The fast rod permits "tip flicks" and these rods tend to spey
cast very well. It's sort of counter-intuitive as most people
associate slower rods with spey casting but I've found faster rods
work better for single handed spey casting.

Basically, a spey cast is simply one where the fly is still in the
water when power stroke is made. Spey casts look like forward casts
when the power is applied and aren't nearly as splashy as a roll cast.

A downstream approach works great with streamers, wets and emergers so
I'd fish those almost exclusively and forget the dries. A fast
sinking caddis emerger on a short leader can brought up short and made
to swing up quickly. If they're whacking caddis coming off (the
jumping is my clue) then a hard swung emerger should take some fish.



Peter

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"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote

Or should I simply give the pool up as too difficult
and concentrate on the pocket water upstream?

shame on you .... the whole point of fly fishing is to make it harder to
catch fish G the harder the spot the better, quality not quanity ( and
you can always go find some easy planters when you find yourself screaming
and mumbling to yourself :-)


I can't tell for sure from your tale, did you try a downstream "Fall River
twitch" that is cast down stream then flick more and more line out after
the cast is on the water ... you don't CAST a long long ways but it is
possible to "flick out" all the line and then some in many situations
especially slower moving water areas

And my first effort would be a smallish soft hackle sunk but not too deeply
and drifted/ twitched/ swung into areas where fish were known to be. And
I'd use at least 5X. I'd probably fish downstream, moving very slowly and
covering the water with real slow swings ( nearly dead drifts ) and a soft
hackle, a step between casts until I was down far enough that the whole pool
had seen my fly. Cast, mend, twitch out line, mend, let it slowly swing,
hand over hand it back to me slow enough to never make a wake, until I could
pick up, amd make a new cast. On the note of "first effort" .... that is
one thing I think is very important with tough fish and one many of us
forget over and over ... make your first effort your best effort ... don't
wait to get into "try hard" mode until after you've failed at an attempt or
two ... fish that are alerted to possible problems get tougher

Or, maybe a fast sinking shooting head, long wait after it was delivered to
allow it to gain the bottom and fish to calm down then a stripped back to me
sculpin or whatever the local ecology suggests in the way of streamer ...
maybe cast from below the "dam" back upstream, the sinking line will still
go down fast?

"Larry L" wrote

I'd use at least 5X.

At least that heavy is what I mean 4X would work I bet

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:02:34 -0500, "Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet
wrote:
Here's a practical problem that I ran into last week. Might be interesting
to see how folks here might solve it:
[snipped]
Here's the question: how would you attack the pool? Rod and line size, fly
selection, and tactics? Or should I simply give the pool up as too difficult
and concentrate on the pocket water upstream? This may be one of the very
few times I've felt that long-distance casting was important.

Sounds like a perfect place to go "bowling", from just above the top of the
pool...

/daytripper (gotta love "Bowling for Trouties" ;-)

"Peter Charles" wrote in message
...
These deep, slow pools bordered by brush are often the toughest
challenges as there's no way to approach them without some difficult
problem intruding.

Casting: __ Only one answer -- spey casting. It can be done with 6'
rods though her e, I'd probably us a fast 8 footer in the 2/3/4 wt.
range. The fast rod permits "tip flicks" and these rods tend to spey
cast very well. It's sort of counter-intuitive as most people
associate slower rods with spey casting but I've found faster rods
work better for single handed spey casting.

Basically, a spey cast is simply one where the fly is still in the
water when power stroke is made. Spey casts look like forward casts
when the power is applied and aren't nearly as splashy as a roll cast.

A downstream approach works great with streamers, wets and emergers so
I'd fish those almost exclusively and forget the dries. A fast
sinking caddis emerger on a short leader can brought up short and made
to swing up quickly. If they're whacking caddis coming off (the
jumping is my clue) then a hard swung emerger should take some fish.


//snip//

Great idea. I was using a Winston 9-foot 5-weight, and just couldn't pick
the line up properly. It was really ugly, especially with the streamers and
nymphs I tried. A faster rod would have helped much. I should have tried
working the water with a streamer cast downstream. I was so fixated on the
rises that I didn't pay enough attention to the fact that things had to have
been happening inside the water column.

Next project is to get permission again . . . At least, all of the fish are
still there, unharmed but entertained.
Bob

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote

Or should I simply give the pool up as too difficult
and concentrate on the pocket water upstream?

shame on you .... the whole point of fly fishing is to make it harder to
catch fish G the harder the spot the better, quality not quanity ( and
you can always go find some easy planters when you find yourself screaming
and mumbling to yourself :-)

In that case, catching zero fish with maximum effort should be sublime
perfection. I guess I was in Nirvana and just didn't know it. ;-)



I can't tell for sure from your tale, did you try a downstream "Fall River
twitch" that is cast down stream then flick more and more line out after
the cast is on the water ... you don't CAST a long long ways but it is
possible to "flick out" all the line and then some in many situations
especially slower moving water areas

Tried that, mainly with dries. Also used a soft hackle a little but probably
didn't give it enough of a chance. By that time I probably had the fish
rollin the aisles laffing their little tails off . . .


And my first effort would be a smallish soft hackle sunk but not too
deeply
and drifted/ twitched/ swung into areas where fish were known to be. And
I'd use at least 5X. I'd probably fish downstream, moving very slowly
and
covering the water with real slow swings ( nearly dead drifts ) and a soft
hackle, a step between casts until I was down far enough that the whole
pool
had seen my fly. Cast, mend, twitch out line, mend, let it slowly swing,
hand over hand it back to me slow enough to never make a wake, until I
could
pick up, amd make a new cast. On the note of "first effort" .... that is
one thing I think is very important with tough fish and one many of us
forget over and over ... make your first effort your best effort ... don't
wait to get into "try hard" mode until after you've failed at an attempt
or
two ... fish that are alerted to possible problems get tougher


Good advice. I tried working the pool from the bottom first (fishing
upstream) and probably put the fish down. So I spent an hour or so on the
upstream section, came back and tried fishing downstream in the manner you
describe. At one point I had drifted out almost all of my line, down to the
backing. Might have had better results with a little more discipline to
continue that longer than I did.


Or, maybe a fast sinking shooting head, long wait after it was delivered
to
allow it to gain the bottom and fish to calm down then a stripped back to
me
sculpin or whatever the local ecology suggests in the way of streamer ...

Very interesting. Didn't think about that. Sounds like a great idea.

maybe cast from below the "dam" back upstream, the sinking line will still
go down fast?

I think the trick is to fish downstream. Trying to throw all that stuff
upstream, it first makes a splash, then floats back at me so fast that I
can't control it.

Thanks much. Practice makes perfect, right?

Bob
Avoiding Nirvana . . .

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote


Thanks much. Practice makes perfect, right?



ain't helped me much ... I still achieve Nirvana far too often G

"Bob Patton" rwpmailatcharterdotnet wrote in message
...
Here's a practical problem that I ran into last week. Might be interesting
to see how folks here might solve it:

Last Friday I fished a stream in western North Carolina. About two miles
of
the stream run through privately-owned land, and that portion is posted
and
zealously protected.......Here's the question: how would you attack the
pool? Rod and line size, fly
selection, and tactics? Or should I simply give the pool up as too
difficult
and concentrate on the pocket water upstream?........

Well, personally, I feel that you should dynamite the pool and, more
particularly, the ****ers that "own" it.........but that's probably not what
you had in mind, huh?

Wolfgang
up the revolution, baby!

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...
//snip//
Well, personally, I feel that you should dynamite the pool and, more
particularly, the ****ers that "own" it.........but that's probably not
what
you had in mind, huh?

Wolfgang
up the revolution, baby!

Welllllllllll . . .
Considering that if somebody had done that a few decades back yours truly
might not be here, I guess I wouldn't be one of the stronger proponents . .
..

Jeffie or Wayno could probably explain, but NC's stream rights laws probably
date back to Oliver Cromwell. Or Henry II.
Bob