Bitten by Snakes or Snapping Turtles while Swimming?

Don Freeman proclaimed:
"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...

Don Freeman wrote:


Doing a search on "aggressive" and "cottonmouth" I find a lot of
disparity in opinions on wither the cottonmouth is actually aggressive or
not. Looking closer at the sources I find that the more reliable ones (as
opposed to joe blows blog site) tend to support the position that its
aggressive nature is not deserved.

Man that sounds like the shark huggers (naturalist) who claim bull sharks
are not aggressive, they mistake humans for fish.

A couple of naturalist were proving that very fact a couple of years ago,
in knee deep water, with bull sharks all around them, and guess what? one
of them got nailed! on camera, yet they still claimed they are not
aggressive


Well duh, and if you walk into a pit of even the most timid snakes you are
bound to annoy at least one of them.


California banned cougar hunting a few years back, and now people are
dying, while they are jogging in their neighborhoods


Oh yeah, they're killing us left and right out here, can't walk to the
corner market without being attacked. That's why there are so many humvees
and other forms of SUVs in my neighborhood: to protects us from all the
unwarranted feline attention.

For a little perspective:
http://california.sierraclub.org/mou...on/safety.html

"Your risk of being injured or killed by a mountain lion is infinitesimal.
There have been only 13 fatal mountain lion attacks in all of North America
in the last 100 years. Eleven of the fatal attacks occurred in western
states and provinces where trophy hunting of lions is allowed. According to
the Department of Fish and Game's own records, in the last 20 years more
than 85 people have died and 700 people have been injured in hunting
accidents in California. For every person killed by a mountain lion in the
last century, 300 people have been killed by bees,. 750 people have died
when their cars collided with deer, 1200 people have been killed by
lightning, and more than 1100 people were killed in hunting-related
accidents. Hunting presents a much greater threat to public safety than
mountain lions."

In other words, your risk of being injured or killed by a mountain lion
is orders of magnitude smaller than it is of being mistaken for an
aggressive snake and being offed by a trusty .22 handgun.


My feelings on the matter is from personal experience, not based on what I
have read somewhere, and I would bet Joe Blow's Blog site is based on the
same thing, his personal experiences

More likely to have been based on apocryphal/anecdotal incidences. Which,
ironically enough, turns this thread on-topic for this group.

Never attribute that to folklore which is more obviously explained by
abject total and willful ignorance.

Bob Ward proclaimed:

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 05:46:56 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


The Calif. F&G is full of **** also. Look at the bad science and the
MLPA's. Bought and paid for by Environazis! Walnut Creek has been a large
population center for years, backing up to Mt. Diablo. Why are these lions
no danger to the populace? They do not like Burb people? Pleasanton Ridge
has several lions. Lots of hikers and bikers. and is between Pleasanton
with 80,000 people and Hayward with even more.

Show us the facts. EXACTLY how many people can you demonstrate have
been attacked in the area you are blathering about?



I live in the greater San Jose Bay Area too, and every time someone even
spots a hunk of what might be cougar doo-doo, the local snooze stations
go berserk with reports of the incident and the spotting and "useful"
cautions and numbers to call and such. I haven't seen as many reports
from the eastern hills as from around such places as the Stanford campus
area, Los Altos Hills, and just down the street a coupla blocks.
Perhaps the western hill mountain lions are more visible than the ones
up behind the east bay?

Actual number of attacks, a coupla orders of magnitude less than the
number of instances of abject stupidity and use of the word "****".

TOliver proclaimed:

"Bob Ward" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 05:46:56 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


The Calif. F&G is full of **** also. Look at the bad science and the
MLPA's. Bought and paid for by Environazis! Walnut Creek has been a
large
population center for years, backing up to Mt. Diablo. Why are these
lions
no danger to the populace? They do not like Burb people? Pleasanton
Ridge
has several lions. Lots of hikers and bikers. and is between Pleasanton
with 80,000 people and Hayward with even more.


Show us the facts. EXACTLY how many people can you demonstrate have
been attacked in the area you are blathering about?



The fact that both of you are acting as flaming assholes hardly negates the
need for rational discussion lions.

It is tough. They are big huge, really beautiful animals. They are
also big huge catlike creatures and as likely to injure humans with play
behavior as attack behavior. Got a scar on the back of my left hand
from a playing roughhouse with a 2 year old female when a teenager.

First, as with a dozen other noticeable species, the puma/cougar/lion has
altered its behavior in recent years, over time adjusting itself lifestyle
and range to the presence of humans - not to the extent that coyotes have -
but in essence beginning to reclaim range it had once abandoned. Food
sources obviously play a part in the "re-spread" of lion habitat and the
growth in the number of lions about. Hunting likely never diminished the
number of lions as much as did loss of habitat, and "learning"/adapting to
new "dietary supplements" helps keep cubs alive and able to grow into
adulthood and reproduce (although finding a mate remain desperately
difficult for many lions, isolated by their solitary habits).

Generally speaking, lions are unlikely to seek close contact with people,
and given their coloration and stealth, folks could walk within a few feet
of a lion, never aware of its presence.

It is a genuine moment when you are wandering places like the Utah
canyons and move up a shelf and discover very fresh cougar tracks where
one has obviously been just a few feet above your head watching you.

There are some ringers which may cause that equation to imbalance.

A female with cubs nearby may react in a fashion quite different from
"normal".

They are also naturally playful like many predators. I wouldn't go so
far as to claim they are just overgrown cats, but I have first hand
knowledge of watching a friend's [the local game warden] kitten grow up
and playing with it... with a few scars as evidence. Plus they were all
over the place on the mountain behind our house and we coud watch them
play around with other animals they obviously had no real interest in
eating. Unfortunately, they tend to be pretty intelligent but somehow
fail to grasp that humans are not as rugged as their fellow lions are
when horse playing. And they will take a run at pretty much anything
going by. Some claim is triggering of hunting behavior....having seen
them "attack" a moving hay fork, I'd be more likely to believe is play
behavior that tends to have fairly severe consequences for the ball of
string.

Any lion which as spent much of its life in proximity to frequent human
activity may, just as even gentle pets do, lash out defensively at a human
who appears as threatening. Why a lion perceives a specific individual or
instance as threatening, we don't know. Ask the lions. I've not know any
"Lion Whisperers" of repute in that area.

As noted, even a lion that grew up around humans and was adopted by a
Great Dane tends to be somewhat disastrously playful even when well
fed... a luxury available only to lions that DO live near overly
available food sources--those left carelessly around by humans.

Some "experts" have with reason claimed that lions see joggers and bike
riders as something other than humans, the rapid movement or the vehicle
altering the appearance, causing the lion to view the rider or runner as
potential prey.

.. or large balls of string.

Others view these sort of attacks in simpler perspective, that runners and
riders confront less than wary lions more quickly than us simple plodders
wandering about, obviously human by our smell and not fast enough to be
athreat. By Golly, I might bite a bike rider who arrived unannounced on my
porch as I was napping during the day in the warm sun, a lionish thing to
do.

I'd agree with this, if something big moves slowly in their direction
they will tend to just as slowly move away, trying not to break
cover--if they are not hunting the big item in question. But if it is
moving too fast, it can trigger hunting/playing [not convinced there is
a difference] behavior as well as possibly startle them--which is NOT a
survival move.


The inevitable result....More people in more places added to some resurgence
in lion population along with reclamation of former range simply means there
will be more attacks, and with a video cam, station vehicle and helo waiting
breathlessly for every human or animal tragedy, the events will be covered.

And are they ever. Typically with prattling about how much easier prey
humans are than deer and how wounded or sick animals are far more likely
to go after humans rather than risk getting their butts kicked by deer.

TM "Don't bike with pumas, and don't send your three year old out to play
with the coyotes either." Oliver

Don't wrestle with them either.

Calif Bill proclaimed:

"TOliver" wrote in message
...

"Bob Ward" wrote in message
. ..

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 05:46:56 GMT, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


TM "Don't bike with pumas, and don't send your three year old out to play
with the coyotes either." Oliver

The lions have also lost fear of humans. And why are acting like a flaming
asshole?

I think he was asking you that question...

Don Freeman proclaimed:

"Lon" wrote in message
...

Don Freeman proclaimed:

"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...


Don Freeman wrote:



"Rodney Long" wrote in message
...



One day I was canoeing and a big Cotton Mouth was just 20 feet away on
the bank, I pulled out the trusted 22 automatic pistol to dispatch it.


Reason being?


They, and man, have no place together, a cotton mouth does not fear man,
and will attack, non provoked, I've had it happen to me more than once,



Yet you state that the snake was on the bank, and you were 20 ft away, on
the water, and in a boat. Now THAT sounds non-provoked.


I think he misunderstood the snake's motivation. The snake was really
trying to protect him from the Killer Rabbit that was trying to crawl into
the boat from the other side.



OK Lon. Do I need to remind you that there is a BoMP in place here?

Wouldn't that be a BoFPJC anecdotes? [1]

[1] To skirt the BOA, Former President...

Jared proclaimed:

David Simpson wrote:

Don't try that in Australia. All snakes are protected here.


I wonder how much good that does to the average Brown Snake that
wanders into an Outback kitchen.

Depends on whether they already have enough sushi for the evening dinner
crowd. [1]

[1] Ob TWiaVBP... Outback is a rather generic chain of steakhouses where
at less the couple I've eaten at appear to be serving geriatric kangaroo
disguised as steak. The Bloomin Onion isn't too bad.

Calif Bill wrote:

The lions have also lost fear of humans. And why are acting like a
flaming asshole

Maybe you haven't noticed that this thread is cross-posted to several
different groups. Presumably the one you're posting from has different
customs from the one I'm reading it in.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise "thank heavens" Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

"Louise Bremner" wrote in message
news:1hl1caw.sozi4e132hkc8N%trap_for_junk_mail@yah oo.com...
Calif Bill wrote:

The lions have also lost fear of humans. And why are acting like a
flaming asshole

Maybe you haven't noticed that this thread is cross-posted to several
different groups. Presumably the one you're posting from has different
customs from the one I'm reading it in.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise "thank heavens" Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

And you believe in selective editing?

Calif Bill wrote:

And you believe in selective editing?

Indeed.

__________________________________________________ ______________________
Louise "different customs" Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!

"Bermuda999" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ps.com...

qquito wrote:
Hello, All:

I am located in southern Virginia. This afternoon, I saw a small snake
in the water near the edge of a pond while taking a walk there. The
snake swam near the edge and, for a few moments, got further away from
the pond edge and deeper into the water; then it was trying to get out
of the water and stopped half way out of the water. It then returned
back to the water and disappeared---maybe because it noticed that I was
approaching.

There are also quite a few turtles in the pond, and I have seen ones of
maybe 6 to 8 inches in size. Could these be snapping turtles?

Two years ago, I also saw otters showing up in the pond.

My question is: If one swims in such a pond, can one get bitten by
either snakes, or snapping turtles, or even otters? Are there any real
cases of swimmers who got bitten by these animals?


"If you're swimmin' in the creek
and something bites you on the cheek,
that's a moray."


If you jump in the pool
and a fish starts to drool,
that's a moray...

Vultures sing, dingalingaling,
oh - a moray

If you're swimming about
and a fish bites your snout,
it's a moray...

Cheers,

Michael "are earworms used as bait ?" Kuettner