TR for the Bighorn Micro Clave and a Trip to Chas's

Thanks for clarifying that, you knew exactly what I meant.

Guess my humor gets lost in translation sometimes, apologies if my remark
was off base.

Not off base, right on target. I am jealous of my long-lost adopted, 1/100
brother's life with some of the best fishing to be found seriously south of
the Mason-Dixon line.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

"Warren" wrote in message ...
lid wrote...

"rw" wrote in message
m...

Just for a bit of clarification, there were nicks in the rod
that I found after the rod broke from what looked like damage
caused by being nicked by big flies. There were white marks
running horizontal to the break on the low end and also a few
nicks on the tip near where the break was. In all honesty I
feel that the rod broke because it was damaged, not because I
was putting too much pressure on a fish that was running
upstream of me. I was pretty much letting the fish spool line
off so that I could wear it out fighting the current instead
of fighting me. I was in the middle of the river without a
net and was basically trying to tire the fish out enough so
that I could land, unhook and release the fish without having
to horse it in and then handle an unruly fish.


Warren,
I have little doubt that you have considerable experience in and knowledge in playing fish, but this
type of fish in heavy current is a whole different dynamic than most trout fishing and something you
admit to having little experience with. While it seems very likely that a nick in the rod contributed
greatly to the break, there is a strong possibility that the rod would not have broken - even with a
nick - if a lower rod angle were utilized. Again, its not about the amount of pressure on the fish,
but about the amount of stress on the rod. Even though you were were letting the fish wear itself out
running upstream against the current ( an excellent tactic on large fish), the angle of the bend in
the rod is most indicative of the amount of stress on the rod. There are some situations where
landing a fish by yourself requires using a very steep angle on the rod (landing fish while in a float
tube is a prime example). However, the situation shown in the pictures does not appear to be one of
them. The pictures show you on a gravel bar that gave you room to keep a low rod angle while leading
the fish into shallow water. If you realse all pressure on the fish as soon as the water is shallow
enough that they need to lay on their side, virtually all salmonids ( even relatively "hot" fish)
cease their struggle long enough for you to unhook them, or, if you wish, kill them.

In the pictures you mentioned, if you look closely, you will
see that I am in the process of landing the fish. #16 has me
laying the rod off to the side and towards the camera in an
effort to turn the fish's head out of the current so that the
current works for me instead of against me. #17 shows me
bringing the rod in so that I could grab the leader (12'
leader, 9' rod, you do the math).

Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

Two questions Bob:

1) Why are you checking out my rod? bseg

Only your FISHING rod.

2) Do you think the camera angle has you a bit confused?

Possibly


If you look closely, you will see that I am angling the rod
out to the side as I land the fish. This can be deceptive
since the rod is coming off to the side and also back at the
camera. Trust me, I know how to land fish and while I
appreciate your input, I think you are waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off
on this one. I will gladly demonstrate the phenomenon in
person if you put me over some big fish. g

You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
worn out old boots that Steve targets ;) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.


Sorry, but a third question:

3) I understand what you are saying about the rod angle and
can "dig" it. You claim to land 20# fish using a 6 wt just as
fast as people using 8 and 9 wt rods. What tricks do you use?
I am sure I will be getting back into that kind of fishing and
any tips would be appreciated. It *is* a totally different
kind of fishing than I am used to and I would appreciate any
tips you can offer. (Joke mode on) The angle of the dangle is
inversely proportional to the heat of the meat. How would you
change my meat? ;-)

All joking aside, I would like to hear what your
recommendations are for landing big fish on a lighter weight
rod are. Chasing those pinks has me wanting something else
and I don't think the fishing around here will suffice. I am
seriously contemplating another trip out to Chas's for some
more fishing. Chas's son Andy gave me an earful that has me
totally wanting to come out again for "the big fish" and I
could use all the advice you can give. You can email me with
your secret patterns if you like, I know I would! g
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
to land.

I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

--
Bob Weinberger - La Grande, OR

Remove "invalid" and place a dot between bobs and stuff to reply email

lid wrote...
snipped

Maybe it is the camera angle, but in picture #16 it definately appears that the butt of the rod is
tilted forward towards the fish greatly reducing the angle between rod and fish. As for grabbing the
leader, as I point out above, the best technique (when there is room) is to not even attempt that
until to fish is in shallow water on its side with no pressure on the line.

The butt of the rod is tilted towards the fish in pic 16 and I
am understanding what you are saying. The method you describe
is the way I normally fight fish unless I am trying to turn
their head out of the current. Definitely something I will
take note of next time I get to tangle with those beasts.

1) Why are you checking out my rod? bseg

Only your FISHING rod.

That's what they *all* say. . . . g

You have an open invitation to come over and receive personal tutoring with big hot steelhead (not the
worn out old boots that Steve targets ;) ) anytime that I am available (which is most of the time)
between July and late Nov. - mid Oct is the best.

I'd seriously like to take you up on that sometime. Only
fishing for trout has taken some of the zest out of fishing
and this new experience was exactly what the doctor ordered to
put that fire back in my eye.

With the exception of keeping a moderately low rod angle and taking ALL pressure off the fish as soon
as you have it in shallow enough water, you are probably already using most of the tricks. You
already mentioned making the fish fight the current as well as you, but an even more effective
technique, if the fish is not directly upstream (or at all downstream), is keep a relatively low rod
angle and point your rod somewhat across the current rather than directly at the fish, so that the
current puts a downstream bend in your line between you and the fish. This not only causes the fish
to fight both the current and the pull of the current against your line, but acts as an excellent
shock absorber when the fish makes sudden lunges or jumps. Another "trick" is to change the direction
of pull against the fish as often as possible so that it is constantly having to adjust its position
relative to the current. This seems to considerably reduce the time needed to wear them down enough
to land.

I'll have to try that downstream line trick sometime. It
makes a lot of sense.

I wasn't trying to pick on you specifically, but like most trout fishermen, even quite experienced
fishermen like yourself, you (at least as I percieved from the pictures) seemed to be unaware of some
factors that are almost never an issue in normal trout fishing, but can become critical when handling
large strong fish in strong currents. I hope you took my comments as intended - suggestions to help
you better deal with this type of fishing rather than as attacks on your abilities.

No, I totally took it as a constructive thing instead of as an
attack and I appreciate it. Something I will definitely start
watching out for in the future so that I can break what could
be a terrible habit should I ever do more of that type of
fishing.

Although I have some patterns that I prefer over others for varying conditions, I have no secret
patterns, and am convinced that MOST OF THE TIME pattern doesn't matter all that much for most
anadromous fish. Well I better end this overly long post and get busy finishing packing for Kodiak.
I'll be away from any computer between tomorrow AM and the evening of 10/3.

Good luck on the trip! I look forward to reading the TR.
--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

"Frank Reid" wrote Not off base, right on target. I am jealous of my
long-lost adopted, 1/100
brother's life with some of the best fishing to be found seriously south
of
the Mason-Dixon line.


The things I enjoy most are my running my dogs after roosters (Pheasants)
and showing people how to fish our waters... It's school holidays here at
the moment and have my kids staying... They are helping me get my dogs
ready for a field trial this coming weekend and later in the week I am
taking them out to try and get them their first trout. I don't get to see
them often so it's a bit of buzz.

The best thing about the fishing, hunting and things i have in my life is
not enjoying them for themselves but sharing them. I guess that probably
sounds trite, but it's exactly how I feel.

That and the fact that the only thing more southern than me is penguins
(He says typing this wearing a "Billy Bob's" hat!)
--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

Warren wrote:

Sorry Darin. I basically had less than 12 hours notice for
this trip. It really was a last minute decision to even go.
Steve talked me into it and we were gone the next morning.
Trust me, if I get back over that way, it will be planned. I
definitely wouldn't mind seeing you and Dave S. again. Steve
and I actually talked about that during the drive.

I wasn't giving you any **** for not letting me know this time, I read that
it was spur of the moment.

Thanks. I'm telling you, that fishing has me looking at other
locations to live even though it would put me farther away
from my daughter.

You're only about 12 hours away here where I'm at, couple a hours closer on
Chas' side of the pond. There are guys that head to Montana just for the 2
day weekend from here. I know it's not an ideal situation for you but if the
thoughts are running through your head it's something to consider. The last
thing I'm trying to do is to talk you into moving over here and away from the
love of your life (your daughter, not fishing).


--
Warren
(use troutbum_mt (at) yahoo to reply via email)

Chas Wade wrote:

I am sorry I didn't talk to you directly Darin, but it was a spur of
the moment trip, and I've been a bit confused by this business of
having to catch 50 salmon per day. I'm off again in the morning for
the Skagit or maybe the Stilly. Saturday on the Skagit was great
again, but I'm hoping to find the silvers. Let me know if you're
interested in getting together for some salmon.

No problem Chas, as I couldn't make it during the week anyways. I'd love to
get together for some salmon but I *have* to work as much overtime as I can
handle.



Oh, I almost forgot to tell you. I tied some pink variations on your
green foam cutthroat fly, and tried them on the pinks Saturday. I had
a couple follows and one strike where the fish missed (refused?) the
fly. I need to play with this idea some more. It's a great pattern.

That is a sal****er pattern but if you're able to get it to work let me
know. It's cool that you at least got a couple of follows with it.

Darin

Chas Wade wrote:

I'm off again in the morning for the Skagit or maybe the Stilly.

I forgot to add that I just read that the Stilly was chocolate milk
yesterday. At least it's on your way to the Skagit.

Darin

"nope" wrote in message

What trailhead did you start at?


Big Arsenic. I know you've fished this area a bunch and now know why you
like it so much. Can't go this weekend but maybe soon thereafter. Let us
know how you do if you make it. And don't forget the SJ, Dec 6-9.

bruce h

Bruiser wrote:


Big Arsenic. I know you've fished this area a bunch and now know why you
like it so much. Can't go this weekend but maybe soon thereafter. Let us
know how you do if you make it. And don't forget the SJ, Dec 6-9.

It's so beautiful down there - I go as much for the hike and the scenery
as I do for the fishing. When you hit it "hot" the fishing is pretty
unbelievable.

This was your first trip into the Wild Rivers area? Watch out for the
poison ivy both along the Rio and on the Red.

the Juan ... I'll be returning from two weeks in Costa Rica the
Wednesday before the Juan. I should be able to make it for a couple of
days. Hopefully I'll have some pictures of Central American fish.
Anyone have any hints on fishing in Costa Rica? Guide recommendations?
I'll start a thread with a proper subject in a couple of days.

- Bryan

Warren wrote:

.... I lent my camera to a friend
who fried the thing and so Willi, Kevin, RW and Snoop were the
photographers. Hope you enjoyed the humor in the TR though.

There was humor?

How do you explain pinks? They can slam a fly, pick it up on
a dead drift and just "hold" the fly or can simply be foul
hooked. I hated how often fish were foul hooked and it was
something that disturbed me.....
excellent descriptions snipped

The range of types of takes and types of fight, depending on the
freshness of the fish, sounds a bit like steelhead, though I think when
you first tie into a really hot steelhead fresh from the sea, the kind
that takes a hundred yards of backing before it even registers you've
hooked something.... well, then you'd get the PNW bug big time.... the
Anadromous Strain g...

Thanks again for the cool TR. Hope you get back to WA or OR for some
more sea run fishing.

JR