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#11
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In article , Lawrence
Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) |
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Lawrence Glickman wrote:
Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. You really in over your head here, most of the sediment in fresh water lakes is plane old suspended dirt, if it was not there, you would not have any fish in the water. Most of it is from ground run off, you also will have quit a bit of microbial life, it's called the food chain,, if there is any crap in there, 99% of that crap, is fish crap (yes fish actually **** in the water they swim in. :-) I hate to tell you this, but much of the canned veggies you eat are grown with "dead" human feces, Delmonte buys the stuff from sewage treatment plants,( I know this because I have seen their field injection trucks (they have plows at the back of the trucks) loading the stuff up at a plant right out side Gettesburg and puts it on their fields.) Of course animal crap is one of the best fertilizers there is I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. I know human feces is composed 50% by weight of bacteria. I also know what bacteria look like ( I studied Invertibrate Zoology in college ). Then you should know that all natural water is full of bacteria, it is the basic start of the food chain, and it breaks down other organic compounds, to the minerals that life needs to live in water If the precipitate is organic in origin, I will identify it as such. These things have cell walls, even if they are bacteria. Iron does not have cell walls. If there are cell walls present, you can be assured it is ORGANIC in nature. If there s nothing organic in that water, then your lake is DOA (*) denotes *you* plural, not Jim in particular. There are many many communities that have fecal material in their water supply. It is dead, but other things in there are no good. For example, did you know that the chlorine that is added to water to kill the bacteria often transmutes into chloriform? which is a carcinogen. And furthermore, there is the fact that Lake Michigan has a deposit underwater of the Highest concentration of Dioxin known on EARTH, from a chemical plant that released its' effluent into the Lake for 50 years before it was shut down. EPA doesn't dare touch it, for fear of putting it into suspension and disbursing into the drinking water supply ( their philosopy is let sleeping dogs lie ). And then there are the unknow contents of thousands of barrels of who knows what that have leached into the soil along southern lake Michigan from over 1 century of Industrail Steel Production. In fact, during one hard rain which forced a sewage treatment plant in Hammond, Indiana to overflow its' containment walls, the neighboring town brought in earthmoving equipment and put up EARTHEN DIKES between Hammond and their township ( hegewish ) so that contamination wouldn't spread into their community. You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? -- Rodney Long, Inventor of the Mojo SpecTastic "WIGGLE" rig, SpecTastic Thread, Boomerang Fishing Pro. ,Stand Out Hooks ,Stand Out Lures, Mojo's Rock Hopper & Rig Saver weights, and the EZKnot http://www.ezknot.com |
#13
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
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#14
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
Don Klipstein wrote:
In article , Lawrence Glickman wrote: On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:08:21 -0500, Jim Ledford wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: [....] Jim Ledford wrote: snip I LOL at how Chicago dumps their treated sewage in the same lake they take their drinking water from. [....] I would know, as I did the experiment. I took tap water from lake Michigan and filled a tall clear bottle with it. I then put it in a place where it wouldn't be disturbed for 72 hours. After that time, I took the bottle and looked at the bottom, where a thick brown sediment had settled. My best guess is that is human fecal material at the bottom of the bottle. Invisible at first because it is in suspension, but given the opportunity for gravity to work on it, the accumulation is quite pronounced, and of the appropriate brown color. As far as dissolved chemicals are concerned, they remained in solution. I attack both problems with sediment and activated carbon filters. I know someone who died from cancer...her doctor said it was most likely from drinking the water ( Steger Illinois, which I think is/was wellwater until we got a feed from Lake Michigan through a Chicago Heights distribution station ). In summary, I would not feed tap water to a stray DOG, without first filtering it through sediment and activated carbon/charcoal filters to remove _most_ of the impurities. There remains the *heavy metals* problem, but those filters are way way expensive. Activated carbon/charcoal with a pre-filter for sediment provides a Good Return on Investment (ROI). I have two of them in series, for drinking water purposes only. Nobody at this house drinks water from any source that isn't first filtered with my own equipment. Lg Chicago ( far South Side ) Lg - smart person, good job for your work. Thanks Jim, Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I surely doubt any of the Great Lakes have that much feces, human or cattle or pig or total in any way! I do suspect you overestimated the thickness of the sediment layer, especially as averaged over the bottom surface of the container. But even if it was only .02 or .01 inch thick if made even in thickness, I don't see any of the Great Lakes having that much poop even if all the cowpies from Wisconsin and all the sewage and dog poop, cat poop, rat poop, mouse poop and roach poop and flyspecks from Chicago and its suburbs and poop from all livestock in Chicago's stockyards got dumped into Lake Michigan with no treatment. I suspect most of this stuff is iron compounds and ordinary dirt. Also, I do not see a need for zero tolerance of fecal matter in water but some sort of "safe level". Humans evolved in areas where I doubt they were upstream of every fish in the nearest creek, as well as runoff from land pooped on by animals let alone the next village upstream! - Don Klipstein ) Pragmatism has no place here - it demotivates the hand wringers... AL |
#15
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:01:30 -0600, Rodney Long
wrote: Lawrence Glickman wrote: Here is my response to those that think I was looking at IRON precipitate.* THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. You really in over your head here, most of the sediment in fresh water lakes is plane old suspended dirt, if it was not there, you would not have any fish in the water. Most of it is from ground run off, you also will have quit a bit of microbial life, it's called the food chain,, if there is any crap in there, 99% of that crap, is fish crap (yes fish actually **** in the water they swim in. :-) I hate to tell you this, but much of the canned veggies you eat are grown with "dead" human feces, Delmonte buys the stuff from sewage treatment plants,( I know this because I have seen their field injection trucks (they have plows at the back of the trucks) loading the stuff up at a plant right out side Gettesburg and puts it on their fields.) Of course animal crap is one of the best fertilizers there is I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. I know human feces is composed 50% by weight of bacteria. I also know what bacteria look like ( I studied Invertibrate Zoology in college ). Then you should know that all natural water is full of bacteria, it is the basic start of the food chain, and it breaks down other organic compounds, to the minerals that life needs to live in water If the precipitate is organic in origin, I will identify it as such. These things have cell walls, even if they are bacteria. Iron does not have cell walls. If there are cell walls present, you can be assured it is ORGANIC in nature. If there s nothing organic in that water, then your lake is DOA (*) denotes *you* plural, not Jim in particular. There are many many communities that have fecal material in their water supply. It is dead, but other things in there are no good. For example, did you know that the chlorine that is added to water to kill the bacteria often transmutes into chloriform? which is a carcinogen. And furthermore, there is the fact that Lake Michigan has a deposit underwater of the Highest concentration of Dioxin known on EARTH, from a chemical plant that released its' effluent into the Lake for 50 years before it was shut down. EPA doesn't dare touch it, for fear of putting it into suspension and disbursing into the drinking water supply ( their philosopy is let sleeping dogs lie ). And then there are the unknow contents of thousands of barrels of who knows what that have leached into the soil along southern lake Michigan from over 1 century of Industrail Steel Production. In fact, during one hard rain which forced a sewage treatment plant in Hammond, Indiana to overflow its' containment walls, the neighboring town brought in earthmoving equipment and put up EARTHEN DIKES between Hammond and their township ( hegewish ) so that contamination wouldn't spread into their community. You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? No, but I've watched deniers like yourself DIE FROM CANCER in the hospital. Their oncologists tell me the water did them in. Drink up old chap. Have a *tall one* on me. Lg |
#16
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In , Lawrence Glickman wrote:
You don't see a problem, which means you are pig assed stupid. Contaminants collect in the fatty tissues of the human body, the filter units ( liver and kidneys ) and can become cancerous. Fecal matter that was the main contaminant mentioned up to now sure doesn't! Contaminants tax the immune system, until one day the immune system can't keep up with the chemical/organic insult anymore and disease takes over. Take solice in the fact that if all the fat-soluble toxins that are currently stored in YOUR fat reserves were released into your bloodstream all at once, you would be dead in short order. Although there are fat-soluble toxic materials that get into people and mostly from pollution, the problem happens to mostly be small enough for overweight/obese overeaters managing to later get down to normal weight to have health benefits from losing fat rather than ill effects of reduced ability to store toxic chemicals in dwindling fatty areas. Cattle aren't expected to live long enough ( 4 to 6 years ) to show signs of a deteriorating immune system, except in the cases of Anthrax and BSE. What about dairy cows? Humans otoh, who want to see 80 years of age, better walk the thin line and keep as many carcinogens out of their body as possible, as many ACCUMULATE IN CONCENTRATION AND QUANTITY as the years go by. Some things to keep in mind: 1. Cancer is not the No. 1 cause of death in the USA. Heart disease is. 2. Most cancer is preventable by avoiding known causes and contributing factors other than eating/drinking chemicals: a) Lung cancer - by a large margin the biggest cancer problem, with a very large majority having smoking as either sole cause or main essential contributing factor. A distant second is known - radon, from buildings being more sealed than they were before the 1970's energy "crisis". b) Colon/rectum cancer - known to be much more common in people who are overweight/obese. To a lesser extent, some evidence exists that a diet lower in fat and higher in fiber helps. That big study with results released recently and supposedly indicating lack of benefits of such a diet only lasted 8 years and *did* show a significant reduction of colon polyps (a precursor of colon cancer) and a deemed-insignificant-by-the-studiers 9% reduction in breast cancer. Oh, and the study was a fat-vs.-carbs one. The "experimental group" reducing fat intake maintained calorie intake through carbs - although "recommended"-healthy forms, fruits and whole grains. I expect that much more significant cancer avoidance would have occurred if the dieters actually consumed fewer calories and lost weight. BTW, the lower-fat higher-carb group with same calories did not gain weight. Actually they lost 5 pounds and gained back about half of that for a very slight net loss. A major purpose of that study was to determine if fat calories and carb calories were more fattening and the results indicated close enough to a draw - with higher-carb lower-fat being less fattening to an extent small enough to consider insignificant and likely not always repeatable. c) Breast cancer - known to be somewhat and significantly more common among overweight people. By at least one account, breast cancer is twice as common among obese women as among women who are not overweight at all. Keep in mind that about .7% of breast cancers are in men! d) Skin cancer - that took a big uptick in the 1980's and 1990's with an uptick in popularity of suntanning, as well as population shift within the USA to sunnier areas. There are many varieties of skin cancer: Basal Cell Carcinoma - a more common less deadly one Squamous Cell Carcinoma - another more-common less-deadly one (Both of these require treatment but a week or month or 2-month delay is unlikely to kill you) Malignant Melanoma - I have heard of 7 varieties, with the 5 most common of those 7 starting at visible primary sites on skin, the 4 most common of all starting at dark-pigmented primary sites in skin, and the most common 3 of these being caused by sun exposure and especially severe sunburn. One form ("acryl lentiginous"), I believe 4th-place of incidence of malignant melanoma, is largely not caused by sunburn and occurs close to equally among people of all races. 5 of the other 6 that I have heard of occurs more among lighter-skin people. But bottom line, I would not blame environment for most or even much of cancers. Lifestyle choices and "go-along-to-get-along" could account for a good 2/3 of cancers. Also, part of the reason that the USA has more cancer is that nowadays Americans are getting more and better heart and kidney disease and stroke treatment, better treatment of infectious diseases, vaccinations against some bad infectious diseases, and after that fewer war deaths and cars now being more crashworthy than they were decades ago so Americans live longer to have a better chance at getting cancer. - Don Klipstein ) |
#17
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
In , Lawrence Glickman wrote:
On 27 Feb 2006 23:01:30 -0600, Rodney Long wrote: You don't sell water purifiers, do you ? No, but I've watched deniers like yourself DIE FROM CANCER in the hospital. Their oncologists tell me the water did them in. Drink up old chap. Have a *tall one* on me. I work a job delivering food from a restaurant to a neighborhood having 2 teaching hospitals, 2 other hospitals and 4 universities and a college. And I waste time doing some reading all of the many newspapers and publications that I can find while doing my job! Done that very many years... And surely I would have to hear of half a bazillion studies and a gadzillion anecdotes! This water issue I find ranking low! Makes me think that L. Glickman is either selling or sold on a water purifier! - Don Klipstein ) |
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
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Fish Down Stream 3M Ssite On Mississippi River Unsafe
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:57:23 -0800, Joshua Putnam
wrote: In article , says... THAT'S A HELL OF A LOT OF IRON! We're talking 1/16th deep LAYER of this *stuff.* If it is human feces, it is _dead_ human feces, but feces none the less. I will need a biology microscope to investigate the exact nature of the material collected as *precipitate,* or it can be removed, dried, then burned and its' color spectrum analyzed for materials present. I will never have enough $ for the spectrum analyzer, but I might be able to borrow a bio microscope. Ever consider taking a properly-bottled sample to a competent testing lab that already owns the necessary equipment for a far more accurate analysis than you're likely to achieve at home? I know what is in the drinking water as far as the Village is willing to release to the public. They sent me ( as a homeowner ) an analysis a while back but for the life of me I can't find it at the moment. IIRC, it passed muster IMO, so maybe I tossed it. Did that at a previous hom because of exactly this sort of brown precipitate issue, and it was indeed simply a very high iron concentration. Turned out that beautiful light-gray sand our aquifer ran through was so high in iron that the sand would rust and turn brown if exposed to air for a few weeks. Well, iron is a necessary mineral for any healthy person, up to a point. Beyond that point, it becomes a POISON. 18 ( eighteen ) milligrams of Iron is accepted as the recommended daily allowance for one each adult human. Beyond that, you're asking for trouble. Also, the presence of bacteria in general won't confirm fecal origins, there are bacteria that thrive on dissolved iron in wells like that. A water district on the same aquifer had to repeatedly hoist and clean their well filters because the iron-loving bacteria would plug the intake filters. Zero coliform count, just lots of bacteria, and lots of iron. Actually, I read somewhere that it is a GOOD IDEA to let algae grow on your sediment prefilter, as this somehow helps in the water purification process. I don't remember the exact mechanism for this. I do know that I let algae ( green ) grown on my sediment pre-filter and do not *worry* about it contaminating anything. In fact, it helps in the cleansing process. I do still want a bio microscope though. I've been looking for an unwanted/unused one for years, but no luck to date. The ones on e-bay are to rich for my blood. Using polarized contrast-phase lighting, you can view LIVE specimines without killing them. So in summary, there are 2 kinds of pollutants: organic inorganic ( chemicals ) Both can hurt you. Cryptosporidium closed down the Milwaukee Wisconsin water supply not to many years ago. There was a boil order in effect for many days befor that was brought under control. Did you know that as few as 3 to 5 Giardia Lamblia cysts can cause Giardiasis? Explosive diarrhea. The kind that can dehydrate and kill you if you don't get the correct medicines in time ( Flagyl, etc. ) in the right doses. I know of someone who went to Mexico and ended up spending over a month in hospital for treatment of Giardia Lamblia infection. Then there are the otherwise unexplained brain cancers, liver cancers, bowel cancers...I don't rule out the water supply as a contributor to these killers. Belittle it all you like. Drink UP! Down the hatch...that a boy. Good Fella! My that was tasty wasn't it? Lg |
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