OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...

On 17-Apr-2008, "Wolfgang" wrote:

Larry

Keep studying
When you go there and speak it you will still make errors but people
will
be
much more frendly if you make the effort to speak thieir language in
their
country
When I go to a Spanish speaking country ojn business I can make my
presentation about our products in Spanish-

Ooh! Ooh! Do it here! Do it here!

after that for all I know they are saying to throw the bum oput as they
speak too fast to understand their reaction .

Um, really? I mean, how fast can anyone say "que la chinga?"...(yeah,
yeah, yeah, Chuck...it's just a joke, not a Spanish class...)

but as I am usually succesful I
know that they appreciate the attempt to speak their language in their
country as many people living here should speak ourr languager in our
country

Ever tried any half-assed US high school French in, oh, say, France...?


If this is all that you have to do with your time you are a pitiful little
mab and a fool
but we already knew that!
So nothing new for you

Fred

On 17-Apr-2008, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

(Training a dog is
a piece of cake compared to training a wife. ;-)


On 17-Apr-2008, Ken Fortenberry wrote:

(Training a dog is
a piece of cake compared to training a wife. ;-)

True words
I understand the reason for the pedigree and the predicatability of their
behavior
We have a German Short Haired Poointer bitch and border collie male and they
do their jobs
Chasing birds and herding kids, cars, horses motorcyles etc

Good luck
You have 2-3 years of crazy puppyhood coming
'Do not let him chew on your waders or flyrods

Fred

In article ,
says...

Perhaps you can return the favor and recommend a book or books
on dog training.


"Training your Retriever" by James Lamb Free is the classic in the
field (it says so right in the subtitle, after all.)

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Your-Retriever-James-
Lamb/dp/0399136207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208486691&sr=1-1

I also like Robinson:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Hunti...riever-Jerome-
Robinson/dp/1558219366/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208486691&sr=1-
12

and Tarrant:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Hunting-Retriever-New-
Program/dp/0876055757/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208489214&sr=1-13

I also highly recommend that you avoid anything by Richard Wolters like
the plague.

I'm nobody's expert on dog training, but I have had several Labradors in
my life. I would concentrate on basic civilization (sit, stay, come,
heel, etc.) and let everything else take care of itself. If you have a
Lab from decent bloodlines, you shouldn't have to do much of anything
to get it to find birds and retrieve to hand. Just get her out hunting
as often as possible, and by the end of her first season, she will know
more about finding pheasants than you ever will.

Unless you want to get into the field trial game; then you'll have to
work a lot harder at training. I've never had any interest in trialing
myself. I'm happy enough knowing that I still have a bunch of ducks and
pheasants stacked up in the freezer.

Kevin
--
Kevin Vang
reply to kevin dot vang at minotstateu dot edu

I bought RosettaStone Spanish ( Latin America) based largely on your
suggestions. * *I have a lifelong history of being terrible at learning
languges, and was very concerned parting with so much money when I'm such a
dolt.

I'm several lessons into the program ... and there is no certainty of my
success,
BUT,
this is the most powerful approach to learning language I've ever seen. *I'm
progressing and having fun doing so.

One thing about language skills (specifically your second, third, n
language) is use and repetion. Its been 15 years since I've actively
used Hungarian. I used to be at the native speaker, college educated
in the language level. Now I can barely count to 10.
Once you get comfortable, use your television or IPod. Watch Mexican
soap operas or get pod casts of the news. You won't understand
everything, but you'll start picking up the phraseology from context.
It gets easier and easier, and then you'll get to the point where you
realize that you just "thought" in the second language. Its an
incredible feeling. Even having the TV on in the background on the
spanish channels while your doing house work will help. Your brain
will be trying to understand what its hearing and make sense of it.
Granted, its short of an immersion program, but everything helps.
Good luck with the study. My wife picks up language like she spends
money on Lancome products. Piece of cake. I, on the other hand, have
to work my ass off to learn a language. I know I'm not a natural
linquist, just a cunning one.
Frank Reid

Kevin Vang wrote:
says...
Perhaps you can return the favor and recommend a book or books
on dog training.

"Training your Retriever" by James Lamb Free is the classic in the
field (it says so right in the subtitle, after all.)

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Your-Retriever-James-
Lamb/dp/0399136207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208486691&sr=1-1

I also like Robinson:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Hunti...riever-Jerome-
Robinson/dp/1558219366/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208486691&sr=1-
12

and Tarrant:

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Hunting-Retriever-New-
Program/dp/0876055757/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208489214&sr=1-13

I also highly recommend that you avoid anything by Richard Wolters like
the plague.

I'm nobody's expert on dog training, but I have had several Labradors in
my life. I would concentrate on basic civilization (sit, stay, come,
heel, etc.) and let everything else take care of itself. If you have a
Lab from decent bloodlines, you shouldn't have to do much of anything
to get it to find birds and retrieve to hand. Just get her out hunting
as often as possible, and by the end of her first season, she will know
more about finding pheasants than you ever will.

Unless you want to get into the field trial game; then you'll have to
work a lot harder at training. I've never had any interest in trialing
myself. I'm happy enough knowing that I still have a bunch of ducks and
pheasants stacked up in the freezer.

Thanks for the book recommendations.

No, I'm not interested in field trials either. My dog won't be
suited for American field trials even though she comes from a
long line of Field Trial Champions in Ireland and Britain.
British Labradors are significantly smaller than their American
cousins, slighter of build and with a quieter temperament. Male
British Labs average 70-75 pounds, the females 53-58 pounds and
while some have competed well in American field trials their
small stature puts them at a disadvantage.

We'll have to have that Dakota style Cast & Blast Clave one of
these autumns, the 9wt and 20 gauge Clave !

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Kevin Vang" wrote

"Training your Retriever" by James Lamb Free is the classic in the
field (it says so right in the subtitle, after all.)

http://www.amazon.com/Training-Your-Retriever-James-
Lamb/dp/0399136207/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208486691&sr=1-1



Gad, I read that when I got my first retriever ... it was chiseled into
rock, back then ...





I also highly recommend that you avoid anything by Richard Wolters like
the plague.



I knew Wolters and can testify that he couldn't teach a hungry dog to eat.
His animals were embarassing ( but heah, he made a fortune with books on
dogs ... makes ya wonder )




I'm nobody's expert on dog training, but I have had several Labradors in
my life. I would concentrate on basic civilization (sit, stay, come,
heel, etc.) and let everything else take care of itself. If you have a
Lab from decent bloodlines, you shouldn't have to do much of anything
to get it to find birds and retrieve to hand. Just get her out hunting
as often as possible, and by the end of her first season, she will know
more about finding pheasants than you ever will.


I'd basically agree with that ... you might have to do a little force fetch
work to get a good delivery

... when I get a new dog in to train, first I evaluate it ... if it won't
natually retrieve with enthusiam and/ or doesn't show plenty of birdiness
.... I send it packing ... in other words I only start training dogs that
naturally do what many hunters think a dog will be trained to do .... mom
and dad give pup the desire, training controls it to the point it's useful



Unless you want to get into the field trial game; then you'll have to
work a lot harder at training. I've never had any interest in trialing
myself.


the Field Trial game ( not Hunt Tests ) is an extremely challenging one,
NOT at all suited for the average guy and his Fido .... I still do 'basics'
for a few trial dogs, I did two this summer, for different people, both
people compete at the National level and are 'serious' enough that they have
bought large hunks of land and built acres of specially designed training
ponds just for their own use ... it's a very competitive and expensive game
( the most I've heard of a single trial dog changing hands for was
$250,000.00 ... and near $100K is fairly common ... not a typo ;-) ...
these people are serious about winning )

Hunt Tests, however, can be a fun activity for guys that are more interested
in dog work than the average, but not willing to spend extreme effort ...
"most" Fidos worth training to hunt can get HT titles if you put in the
hours ( but it's only worth it if both you and the dog enjoy those hours ..
it's not 'needed' to fill the freezer )

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote


No, I'm not interested in field trials either. My dog won't be
suited for American field trials even though she comes from a
long line of Field Trial Champions in Ireland and Britain.
British Labradors are significantly smaller than their American
cousins, slighter of build and with a quieter temperament. Male
British Labs average 70-75 pounds, the females 53-58 pounds and
while some have competed well in American field trials their
small stature puts them at a disadvantage.



A dog from British Trial lines is an EXCELLENT choice for a gun dog ...
mainly because of the quieter temperament

You'll do great Ken, keep us updated ... got a name yet?

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
No, I'm not interested in field trials either. My dog won't be
suited for American field trials even though she comes from a
long line of Field Trial Champions in Ireland and Britain.
British Labradors are significantly smaller than their American
cousins, slighter of build and with a quieter temperament. Male
British Labs average 70-75 pounds, the females 53-58 pounds and
while some have competed well in American field trials their
small stature puts them at a disadvantage.

A dog from British Trial lines is an EXCELLENT choice for a gun dog ...
mainly because of the quieter temperament

You'll do great Ken, keep us updated ... got a name yet?

Thanks Larry. We want a name that reflects the Irish in her
bloodline and starts with a K. (My wife is Kristine with a
K, my first name starts with a K, so there you have it. ;-)
I'm leaning toward Kerry and my wife seems partial to Kelty.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Frank Reid" wrote

Once you get comfortable, use your television or IPod. Watch Mexican
soap operas or get pod casts of the news. You won't understand
everything, but you'll start picking up the phraseology from context.
It gets easier and easier, and then you'll get to the point where you
realize that you just "thought" in the second language. Its an
incredible feeling. Even having the TV on in the background on the
spanish channels while your doing house work will help. Your brain
will be trying to understand what its hearing and make sense of it.
Granted, its short of an immersion program, but everything helps.
Good luck with the study. My wife picks up language like she spends
money on Lancome products. Piece of cake. I, on the other hand, have
to work my ass off to learn a language. I know I'm not a natural
linquist, just a cunning one.
Frank Reid



ummm .... no in front of the quoted text ... happens some times and I
don't know why


oh, back to ..

where were we? oh yeah, memory


Thanks for the suggestions Frank .... I've been trying the TV thing a bit
and can see how it could help ... I was riding my bike yesterday and went
past a place with the radio blaring in Spanish, I noticed that I understood
a couple sentences !!! Now a couple sentences surely ain't much, but I
still found it exciting.

IYO, would it be better to turn on kid's programs ( I'm thinking Sesame St
in spanish ) or something I'd be more honestly interested in as a program?
Just curious how you think the brain would work .. ie easy learning vs
motivated learning I watched a PBS program on the brain and keeping it
'plastic' into old age recently .. they specifically mentioned learning a
language as a good exercise and also mentioned that motivation ( focus ) was
essential to 'turn on' the synapse linking functions within the brain,
apparently you can't learn well unless you really want to learn and that
gets truer with age.

I'm really looking forward to getting brave enough to go into a local
Mexican grocery and try shopping in spanish .... I stopped on the same bike
ride yesterday and chatted with a woman about her goats ( lots of goats
around here, more and more each year ) and she was telling me goat meat is
available there ... I've never tried it ... kinda scary thinking what I
might actually end up with shopping for goat meat in a language I can't
really speak ... ah life's little adventures G

I bought RosettaStone Spanish ( Latin America) based largely on your
suggestions. * *I have a lifelong history of being terrible at learning
languges, and was very concerned parting with so much money when I'm such a
dolt.

I'm several lessons into the program ... and there is no certainty of my
success,
BUT,
this is the most powerful approach to learning language I've ever seen. *I'm
progressing and having fun doing so.

Well, keep learning and good luck. You might also want to try having
the TV on in the background to a Spanish channel or listen to podcasts
of Spanish language news. No, you won't understand every thing they
say, but your brain will be immersed in the language and that really
helps. Its a skill you have to keep practicing. I stopped using
Hungarian over 15 years ago. I used to speak at the level of college-
edudcated in the language. Now I can barely count to 10 in
Hungarian.
My wife is a natural linguist. She picks up languages like she spends
money on Lancome and shoes. I, on the other hand, have to study my
ass off to learn and work smarter. I may not be a natural linguist,
but I'm a cunning one.
Frank Reid